Pianoteq - Looks Like new Modelled Piano

[Dewdman42]

People are definitely going to find uses for this plugin... For me personally..its still lacking in terms of raw sound when I'm sitting here playing it. And it takes 3-5x as much CPU power as some other sampled pianos I've used(depending on the player)....which limits the laptop live gigging usefulness at this point. Its much easier to put a 100GB 7200rpm laptop drive into my laptop then to worry about my CPU power. That being said, I was impressed with some sonic possibilities of creating odd-ball sounds with it.....and I am eagerly awaiting the company and community to produce a better set of presets that may change my mind about the raw sound quality.

I think its crazy to say that this plugin is useless, but its also crazy to say that this is the new thing that will render all sampled pianos obsolete. It isn't quite there yet, impressive as it may be terms of the advancement in physical modeling. But with some more R&D in a few years it probably will be.

I, like others, think its overpriced. I can't buy it now for this reason alone. If and when it truly is good enough to render all the sampled pianos obsolete, then it will be well worth $300. Until such time, I'll just have to sit on the sidelines and let other people play around with it. At this point, when I can afford only one piano, I'd rather go with Ivory or perhaps The Vista one.

Its hard for me to explain in what way its lacking in sound to not satisfy me, but I just think lower notes sound absolutely wimpy. It is true that I may very well be accustomed to listening to sampled pianos that actually sound more intense than a real piano. But I tell you what..when I hit low octaves on a real Yamaha C7 with the top open...those low notes really are impressive. The plugin doesn't quite cut it there. I'm not kidding when I say that when I hit a low octave and hold it, I feel like I'm hearing my old long gone yamaha CP80.

And generally, on up the keyboard into the middle range..I find it lacking a certain meatiness. Part of this could most definitely be because I'm used to "feeling" it when I play. But...there is no question that Ivory, for example, doesn't seem to lack this meatiness that I'm talking about. This is quite likely fixable with some EQ and I need to experiment more. And did I mention? MORE PRESETS PLEASE.

Regarding the high notes..they sound fine to me.

Regarding all the subtle string interactions that this plugin is supposed to produce...I take your word for it..but honestly..I don't know what to listen for to know if its really happening or if it is really such a suble thing that most of time will not be heard in a mix. I am not a solo piano performer. In general I look for several things in a digital piano sound

1 - Will it help me feel inspiration when I'm tinkering around and writing (pianoteq does not)

2 - Will it sit well in a mix and sound realistic (pianoteq
probably does)

3 - In mix situaton when you need a certain piano bit to stand out and really grab some sonic attention (I have my doubts
about pianoteq cutting it here).

Meanwhile, Ivory satisfies all of the above requirements for me. The only downside of Ivory is the HD space it consumes and I don't have the freedom to create bizzare piano-like instruments to the degree I could with Pianoteq.

I guess the bottom line for me is that, at $300, Pianoteq is a no go. maybe after it evolves I will consider it. If the price were $99, I would probably buy it anyway as an additional sound source to play with and see where it goes.

Keep up the development guys, its impressive what you have done with it so far.

[Cellomangler]

Ahmen..

[olepro]

You will first discover what this thing can do after having played around with the different settings/parameters.
I'm doing a song right now where i'm using a Sampletank piano.
I tried to fit Pianoteq in there instead and after that i'm 100 percent shure i did the right thing buying this beast.
it sounded right from the start with a upright piano preset i did yesterday, but then i added a little more sound from the hammers, ahhh, even better...then i tuned the hammer sound a little to get some more overtones from the attack.... wow ! now it's there, the piano is blending great in the song.
Well try to do that with a sampled piano !
I often have problems fitting a piano sound into a soundscape but now i know Pianoteq has solved this problem.
I have the same joy with this as i have with my Lounge Lizard 3 E-Piano.
It's so much fun and cool to be able to fine tune the instrument this way.

[Boulotaur2024]

I feel like I'm hearing my old long gone yamaha CP80.

Voila, actually that's exactly what I was thinking of when first trying Pianoteq, I just couldn' remember the name of the instrument, that's right, CP80 !

@olepro : What about posting your song here when it's finished ?

[eduardo_b]

Not sure I follow your line of reasoning. Because people are using romplers for soundtracks and advertising, this PM piano can't have features unavailable in a sampled instrument? For one thing, Pianoteq hasn't been available until now - how do you know a soundtrack composer wouldn't have preferred this piano to a sampled one, given the choice?

I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say in too few words. The entire rationale for multi-gig sample libraries is they literally replace entire orchestras as well as individual musicians. Over the last six months or so there's been an interesting series in Sound On Sound about making a living doing soundtracks for film and television, and it all centers on sample libraries.

Now, I see posts here about how Pianoteq is better than sample libraries for reasons that don't jibe with what I've read about how composers use romplers and why. They want sounds that are, for all practical purposes, indistinguishable from real musicians and orchestras -- both for convenience and work style, and because of costs. That tells me modelling is not a plus. These composers have no shortage of drive space or computer power, so there is nothing to be gained from using a modelled piano synth, and particularly given that it really can't emulate the real thing convincingly.

This plug-in may have its attributes, but to imply or expressly state that it could replace high-end sample libraries is not credible. It may create unique sounds, but that's an entirely different rationale from comparing its qualities to high-quality romplers. I'd never trade Ivory for Pianoteq.

Not saying you shouldn't use and enjoy creating music with Pianoteq. I hope you are able to acquire it sooner rather than later. Cheers.

[Yossarian]

Now, I see posts here about how Pianoteq is better than sample libraries for reasons that don't jibe with what I've read about how composers use romplers and why. They want sounds that are, for all practical purposes, indistinguishable from real musicians and orchestras -- both for convenience and work style, and because of costs. That tells me modelling is not a plus. These composers have no shortage of drive space or computer power, so there is nothing to be gained from using a modelled piano synth, and particularly given that it really can't emulate the real thing convincingly.

There may certainly be genres in soundtrack composition that require absolute realism (or as close as we can get) and for composers in that field Pianoteq may not be the best instrument but you're talking about a segment within a segment of all possible applications for a piano emulation. I fail to see why Pianoteq should be dismissed because it doesn't meet the demands of one very specialized niche market.

This plug-in may have its attributes, but to imply or expressly state that it could replace high-end sample libraries is not credible. It may create unique sounds, but that's an entirely different rationale from comparing its qualities to high-quality romplers. I'd never trade Ivory for Pianoteq.

I hope this wasn't directed at me, because I don't believe I've made any such claims. If anything, I've argued that Pianoteq adds to what we have, not that it replaces it.

/Yoss

[olepro]

I feel like I'm hearing my old long gone yamaha CP80.

Voila, actually that's exactly what I was thinking of when first trying Pianoteq, I just couldn' remember the name of the instrument, that's right, CP80 !

@olepro : What about posting your song here when it's finished ?

There is a chance, but may take a while.
It's a remix for Jonatha Brooke i'm doing right now so i don't know for shure how she will use it afterwards.

But i could upload the piano part alone maybe, i just have to find a place to upload it.

[Tea]

You will first discover what this thing can do after having played around with the different settings/parameters.
I'm doing a song right now where i'm using a Sampletank piano.
I tried to fit Pianoteq in there instead and after that i'm 100 percent shure i did the right thing buying this beast.
it sounded right from the start with a upright piano preset i did yesterday, but then i added a little more sound from the hammers, ahhh, even better...then i tuned the hammer sound a little to get some more overtones from the attack.... wow ! now it's there, the piano is blending great in the song.
Well try to do that with a sampled piano !
I often have problems fitting a piano sound into a soundscape but now i know Pianoteq has solved this problem.
I have the same joy with this as i have with my Lounge Lizard 3 E-Piano.
It's so much fun and cool to be able to fine tune the instrument this way.

I also think what the developers have done is amazing, and am waiting for either 1.5 or a price reduction (and maybe a chance to try the new 4front PM piano, if and when its released...) before I go for it.

In the meantime, olepro, I don't supposed you'd be able to upload the preset you made mentioned above...?

T

[olepro]

I also think what the developers have done is amazing, and am waiting for either 1.5 or a price reduction (and maybe a chance to try the new 4front PM piano, if and when its released...) before I go for it.

In the meantime, olepro, I don't supposed you'd be able to upload the preset you made mentioned above...?

T

I will be away from computer the next few days but i will try to upload the preset when i can.

[wildzeke]

Just out of curiosity, do these Pianoteq vs. sampled piano apply to the Lounge Lizard as well? The Lounge Lizard cost $225-$250 which is $50 more than the Native Instruments Elektrik Piano. But people seem to like the AAS product. But personally, the Piantoteq is out of my price range. If there was ever a $99 version, I would buy it.

[olepro]

Lounge Lizard must be one of my best investments in VST world.
It is so inspiring to play and work with and i'm allready discovering the same thing with Pianoteq

[Bill OC]

It is the most enjoyable virtual piano of any kind that I have played. Perhaps not *quite* the body of a large sampled grand. And (to be expected) it requires a lot of computing power.

As a first release, quite exceptional. I'm going to file this as "one to watch" until the next version. Not too long from now the multi-gig pianos will go the way of the dino..dinos...you know, those big critters that used to roam the earth.

Regards,

Bill OC

[djdorian]

I don't understand why some people can't seem to appreciate the technological achievement that has been made here. This is the first time anything like this has been done (with sonically pleasing results, anyway!) There's been like 1 or 2 other predecessors to this PM piano, but this is the first realistic sounding PM piano!

Give credit where credit is due, this thing is freakin' cool!

[Cellomangler]

djdorian wrote:

I don't understand why some people can't seem to appreciate the technological achievement that has been made here.

I can sure appreciate it. I've been following the evolution of synths since my Arp 2500 days doing planetarium soundtracks. I have a Yamaha VL70m which is a remarkable modeler for woodwind and brass and beyond. I really want Pianoteq but I just can't justify the expense right now. And I know it's too late for them to lower the price because that would p-ss off previous buyers. I think I'll just record notes off the demo and make my own personal Pianoteq sample library. (arrrgggg)
Meanwhile.. how can we help pinpoint where Pianoteq is lacking ? -is the midrange just too electric piano sounding ? Too much bell and not enough twang ? More wood ? Yeah, I'd really like a copy... 8 megs -that really is incredible...

[mm-pro]

I agree with the observation that the note attacks are over simplified. Overall, I think the issues in the piano are that the harmonics don't have accurate enough pitch envelopes, both in the attack and sustain areas, and that the pitch envelopes of the harmonics don't respond to velocity enough. I think the hammer controls need more break points than the three provided, and that the velocity controls are also oversimplified, and the velocity needs to be able to be sent to the many parameters individually.

Overall a very impressive new synthesizer, though.

Regards,

MM