KVR Audio

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:24 pm

pdxindy wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:How about we wait for Live Max ... with full, seamless integration of Max and its modulation plugins?
that is a dream for many!

will Live get there first?

or will Bitwig get their modular framework fully open to users first?

Yup, I have Live Suite and BWS- can't loose!

Must admit I never really got in to MAX, I tried (bought books, watched videos) but it was a bit too much like 'work' and it also felt like a separate eco-system to Live. If BWS 'open modular' is much much easier then I may use it, but to be honest the modulation system meets 90% of my needs.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:31 pm

pdxindy wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:How about we wait for Live Max ... with full, seamless integration of Max and its modulation plugins?
that is a dream for many!

will Live get there first?

or will Bitwig get their modular framework fully open to users first?

Doesn't matter to me. I'm a long time Live user, and never missed having a built in modulator. I've invested way too much time and money in Live & Push over the years to consider jumping ship. I'm in no hurry for Live 10 (but will doubtless upgrade when it arrives).

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:53 pm

M4L seems pretty well integrated to me ... how much more integrated can it get ? not an objection by the way, just curious.

Besides, and I mentioned this earlier, a 'fully integrated' (whatever that means exactly) M4L LFO (for example) is fine and dandy, but if it's operating at current M4L LFO CPU demands, it is pointless in so far as addressing the feature request for native modulators. No one is asking for native modulators in LIVE because M4L isn't 'integrated enough' .... they're asking because M4L modulators are absolute CPU pigs. It's not an issue of abstraction, it's an issue of vastly disproportianate CPU demands. The assumption is that a native LFO (for example) will be much leaner on the CPU than the M4L equivalent. And of course, there are those who want them native because they feel they shouldn't have to buy M4L for functionality they believe should be in the base package. I couldn't care less about that, it's all about the CPU as far as I'm concerned, and people who have that issue will be likely placated when M4L becomes standard.

anyway, this is classic Ableton LIVE feature request begrudgery ... I recall particularly during the early to mid years of development, up until maybe LIVE 7 ..... you couldn't make any feature request without a swarm of hysterical neckbeards listing out some 14-step 'workaround' to approximate the feature being requested. And no feature request was valid if such a workaround existed. The larger and broader LIVE's userbase became, the less of that shit we saw. But it manages to rear its fugly head now and then, neckbeards gotta neckbeard I guess

jonljacobi · Post by **jonljacobi** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:51 pm

I like reading about workarounds. I've learned quite a bit from them.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:23 pm

I said "full. seamless integration of Max" ... meaning, it's just there as part of Live, not a CPU munching add-on, not that I have any problem with how things are now tbh. It would be "neater" is all. i use the LFOs in Simpler and Sampler all the time, so maybe I don't quite get the missing modulators thing

Anyways ... Live MAX sounds better than Live 10 to me

and I like finding out about workarounds too. Its one of Lives strengths imho (there is almost always a workaround).

pottering · Post by **pottering** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:36 pm

SLiC wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:How about we wait for Live Max ... with full, seamless integration of Max and its modulation plugins?
that is a dream for many!

will Live get there first?

or will Bitwig get their modular framework fully open to users first?
Yup, I have Live Suite and BWS- can't loose!

Must admit I never really got in to MAX, I tried (bought books, watched videos) but it was a bit too much like 'work' and it also felt like a separate eco-system to Live. If BWS 'open modular' is much much easier then I may use it, but to be honest the modulation system meets 90% of my needs.

Maybe you missed the premade BEAP modular system that comes with M4L?

https://little-scale.blogspot.com.br/se ... p%20basics

Also the Max For Cats OSCiLLOT system works similarly, it links with all the rest of M4L and Abelton and it is not a closed plugin, 3rd party devs (outside Max For Cats) can make OSCiLLOT compatible devices, kinda like people been building VCV Rack stuff.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:33 pm

pottering wrote:
SLiC wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:How about we wait for Live Max ... with full, seamless integration of Max and its modulation plugins?
that is a dream for many!

will Live get there first?

or will Bitwig get their modular framework fully open to users first?
Yup, I have Live Suite and BWS- can't loose!

Must admit I never really got in to MAX, I tried (bought books, watched videos) but it was a bit too much like 'work' and it also felt like a separate eco-system to Live. If BWS 'open modular' is much much easier then I may use it, but to be honest the modulation system meets 90% of my needs.
Maybe you missed the premade BEAP modular system that comes with M4L?

https://little-scale.blogspot.com.br/se ... p%20basics

Also the Max For Cats OSCiLLOT system works similarly, it links with all the rest of M4L and Abelton and it is not a closed plugin, 3rd party devs (outside Max For Cats) can make OSCiLLOT compatible devices, kinda like people been building VCV Rack stuff.

Played with BEAP, it’s pretty cool but not for me. I am more interested in modulating/cv my Eurorack - was using CV toolkit but now prefer to do it Native in BWS. There is no doubt Max is powerful and capable (I own Max 7, not just M4L and was tooling around with it for cv scriprs and some simple sequencers) but I am not fast at making musical things with it, I am faster at realising ideas with BW, but BW stuff is far more limited (pretty much just modulation) and Max can be anything....in the right hands!

pottering · Post by **pottering** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:41 pm

Yeah, I mostly just download and buy pre-made stuff for M4L and Reaktor myself.

freefeet12 · Post by **freefeet12** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:16 am

If 10 has nudge clip in arrange (by samples and or divisions ect.) with keyboard, I'll be on the moon

, if actual audio editing is implemented, it's the universe for me.

Sure, native modulators without the M4L CPU hit, an extra window or two, and the ability to edit multiple clips at once (in one window or something) would be nice too.

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:42 am

Daags wrote:
wow, aren't we demanding ...

so ... new leaks or pics ... presumably you mean besides all the stuff included in the Original Post, right ?
well listen, I'm trying to make it very easy for people by keeping the OP updated with respect any additional 'new leaks or pics' ... so all you have to do is check the OP, no need to fraternise with the great unwashed down here in the depths of the thread, where insane things like lively debate, feature wishlists and so on are taking place.

these 'so called leaks' are in fact 'leaks' btw ... i mean, I'm very sorry that they're not as meaty as you'd wish. I'll try harder next time, boss.

just check in on the original post to see if there's any new news, not just the old new news, but new new news.... I'll be keeping it up to date. And of course I'll be editing the subject of the thread when it makes sense.

what a LOL of an emotional confession. Meaty, boss, fraternisers..hahaha..leaks or not (how on earth are you considering something as a printed paper given to public a "leak" is beyond me).

Man i was not referring to you at all (did i quoted you somewhere?) i was merely referring to the people which are talking about everything else apart from Live. I tried to get it back on topic. I see now you are original poster and thanks for everything but seriously i think you have some social issues. None of the labels or semantics you throw at me where not being even remotely considered when i was replying.

but knock yourself out if you have need to vent your psyche. It's a KVR after all

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:01 pm

I’ve been with Ableton since Live 2.0

And I remember that in the good old days, folk here used to argue about whether it would/should ever support VST instruments, gain MIDI sequencing, Track freeze, delay compensation, group tracks, video support …

So now here we are watching an argument about whether Bitwig’s LFO might be just a little more efficient than Ableton’s M4L one.
Awesome!

Spencer Maddox · Post by **Spencer Maddox** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:13 pm

headquest wrote:I’ve been with Ableton since Live 2.0

And I remember that in the good old days, folk here used to argue about whether it would/should ever support VST instruments, gain MIDI sequencing, Track freeze, delay compensation, group tracks, video support …

So now here we are watching an argument about whether Bitwig’s LFO might be just a little more efficient than Ableton’s M4L one.
Awesome!

Its KVR. This stuff has become accepted and expected

mcbpete · Post by **mcbpete** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:15 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:Anyways ... Live MAX sounds better than Live 10 to me

Good shout, or alternatively 'Live maX' to represent both the 10 and the native integration.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:43 pm

headquest wrote:I’ve been with Ableton since Live 2.0

And I remember that in the good old days, folk here used to argue about whether it would/should ever support VST instruments, gain MIDI sequencing, Track freeze, delay compensation, group tracks, video support …

yep, and where would LIVE be if the .jon's of those times would have been listened to ?

headquest wrote: So now here we are watching an argument about whether Bitwig’s LFO might be just a little more efficient than Ableton’s M4L one.

Regarding LIVE having native modulators, such as an LFO, as far as I can see I am the only person making an argument from a CPU efficiency point of view. You'll notice those arguing against the LIVE native modulators, such as an LFO, feature request are doing so simply from a 'philosophical' point of view ... i.e they don't think LIVE needs it because they're balls deep in a high-end, sophisticated modular environment like Reaktor/Blocks to begin with, or they're content drawing automation

No one is arguing against me about the fact M4L LFO's are CPU pigs, because that is an absolute, unequivocal, objective truth that is beyond argument. And it is not a case of being a 'little' less efficient.

if someone has made a counter-argument related to CPU efficiency, I must have missed it.

robotmonkey · Post by **robotmonkey** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:47 pm

I've heard Live 10 will become the last numbered Live version. After that it's updates will be named with random nonsensical names like Live Creators Update and such.

Ableton LIVE 10 ... Officially Announced. (plus: Buy LIVE 9 now with 20% discount, get LIVE 10 free)