Arturia Xmas Gift Reverb PLATE-140

[JO512]

Here is what a real EMT Plate 140 looks like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEmJpxCvp9M

[andrelafosse]

Just tried an experiment:

- Took a static snare sample
- Inserted the Arturia EMT onto the channel, with mix 100% wet
- Cut and pasted the snare sample four times in a row
- Bounced the four snare hits to a new audio track
- Copied the 2nd of those four snare hit to an adjacent audio track at the same output level, and lined it up with the first track
- Flipped the phase on the 2nd track
- Played the bounces of the first snare hit (on one track) and the second one (on the second track) with the phase inverted
- They totally null together
- Did the same thing with lining up various combinations of the four instances, and they all null with one another

Is that compelling evidence that it's convolution, rather than algorithmic?

(For the record, I seriously love the sound of this thing.)

[Burillo]

Just tried an experiment:

- Took a static snare sample
- Inserted the Arturia EMT onto the channel, with mix 100% wet
- Cut and pasted the snare sample four times in a row
- Bounced the four snare hits to a new audio track
- Copied the 2nd of those four snare hit to an adjacent audio track at the same output level, and lined it up with the first track
- Flipped the phase on the 2nd track
- Played the bounces of the first snare hit (on one track) and the second one (on the second track) with the phase inverted
- They totally null together
- Did the same thing with lining up various combinations of the four instances, and they all null with one another

Is that compelling evidence that it's convolution, rather than algorithmic?

(For the record, I seriously love the sound of this thing.)

every modeling plugin (bar those which intentionally include some kind of randomization e.g. u-he Satin) does the same thing.

[Local Man]

BLOATWARE.

I just wanted to see if smugly uttering that term for no good reason would make me feel self important.

Yeah, feels good.

[muki]

from Arturia webpage:

A circuit-accurate recreation of the iconic EMT 140 reverb

so the reverb itself is modeled too.

a "circuit-accurate recreation" would be the electronics (resistors, capacitors etc)
running to and from the plate, i would think
not the plate itself
and it's the plate that does the reverb

but i have to correct myself:
further on on arturias page they say:

"Now, thanks to our exclusive physical modeling technology, you can use this studio legend[…]"

well..."exclusive"...

[muki]

[…]
They totally null together
Is that compelling evidence that it's convolution, rather than algorithmic?

ooops....
methinks kind of >yes<...but well...

"exclusive" physical modelling technology,
"beautifully" modelled vintage vacuum tube preamp

man, how i love this marketing lingo

waiting for the ordinary boring physical IR with disgusting, rotten tubes in a terrible user interface

[JO512]

To say it is "circuit-accurate", if they are being truthful, would only have to mean that, in software somewhere, they have the same basic structure as the circuit portion of the real thing. In other words, this component is routed to that component, which is routed to this other component, and so on. And given the simplicity of an old amplifier circuit, that's not saying a whole lot. And it doesn't mean we have a detailed physical model of something like a transformer, the associated electromagnetic fields, and so on, in that circuit. Doing that would really be a pointless waste of CPU cycles anyway!

In Reaktor, we can "model" the basic behavior of a voltage-controlled amplifier module with nothing more than a simple multiplication operator. It is efficient and does the job. It isn't a deep or detailed model though. Is it "physical modeling"? What would a lawyer say? I suppose, if that multiplication operator is intended to represent a physical amplifier, technically, this is "physical modeling".

An IR could probably even legally pass as a "model" of the reverb part, since it modifies your signal in a way that is very similar to the way the real thing would. "Modeling" is really a pretty loose word, it seems to me. There are more and less accurate and detailed models. Complicated physical modeling of the behavior of a metal plate, the transducers, the frame, and whatnot, is just a deeper model. And that is surely not what we have here.

It's the same with software like Amplitube. Such effects are full of convolution. IRs for the cabinets. IRs for the microphones. IRs for the speakers. IRs for the rooms. Probably IRs for parts of the amp circuits. They definitely are not simulating the movement of air in simulated wooden boxes and whatnot.

Really, convolution is amazing technology. But it is pretty trivial to implement these days, as it is already a solved problem. It just takes a little math, which you can look up. And Arturia probably already has a convolution module that they can paste into any of their coding projects. Putting this together for Arturia probably didn't require much resources at all. Creating the graphics and putting together the marketing materials and fancy words was probably the biggest investment!

None of this is to say that this plugin doesn't sound good or isn't potentially useful. My main point is that you could just use a free convolution reverb plugin with some free IRs to accomplish the same thing. And that convolution reverb plugin can be used for many, many other things. You can even use sound files that are not meant to be IRs for creative effects.

[budweiser]

Is that compelling evidence that it's convolution, rather than algorithmic?

(For the record, I seriously love the sound of this thing.)

Yep, or maybe a kind of "hybrid" reverb, like uad akg/ocean way/capitol verbs. There's also the short delay when switching reverb models that screams "convolution".
Anyway it sounds really good and already replaced my uad emt140 and soundtoys plate !

[Burillo]

physical model != non-deterministic output. it is entirely possible for a model to be accurate yet produce bit-identical result for a given input every time.

[oboemaroni]

Is anyone else still unable to activate this? I've reinstalled several times and the license appears in Arturia Software Centre with 'buy' next to it, which leads to a 404 page not found error. Opening the plugin I can only demo or buy, again getting that error with the latter option. Also it only installs a VST3 version. I've emailed Arturia but worried I'm going to miss the freebie window so wondered if anyone else has found a solution.

Did you create an account in the Arturia web site, and register the plug-in in you account?

You can't activate a plug-in if you don't own it. The instructions re very clear:

"How to Get it

We will guide you through the few steps to get started with your product:

1. Click here to login or make a new account if you don’t already have one, it’s free. At the end of this process, your license will be added to your account

2. Install your new Effect thanks to the Arturia Software Center (ASC).
This is how all of our software instruments and effects are managed, rather than using awkward USB dongles

3. Launch your product inside your usual DAW. Follow this guide to jump right in!"

Yes, obviously I'd have to have an account to be logged in to Arturia Software Centre. I've followed the instructions to the letter, and have tried uninstalling and reinstalling several times over several days, there's still no option to activate. Hopefully Arturia support can sort it out.

[JO512]

physical model != non-deterministic output. it is entirely possible for a model to be accurate yet produce bit-identical result for a given input every time.

True!

[JO512]

If anyone wants to make their own real plate reverb for fun, check this out:

https://youtu.be/CZWAntOnrx4

[Phil B]

Yes, obviously I'd have to have an account to be logged in to Arturia Software Centre. I've followed the instructions to the letter, and have tried uninstalling and reinstalling several times over several days, there's still no option to activate. Hopefully Arturia support can sort it out.

Same here. Gave up

[twilli003]

Yes, obviously I'd have to have an account to be logged in to Arturia Software Centre. I've followed the instructions to the letter, and have tried uninstalling and reinstalling several times over several days, there's still no option to activate. Hopefully Arturia support can sort it out.

Same here. Gave up

Same problem here.

[robotmonkey]

[…]
They totally null together
Is that compelling evidence that it's convolution, rather than algorithmic?

ooops....
methinks kind of >yes<...but well...

So... does this mean we have been scammed?

This plugin has ruined the Christmas Time to get those pitchforks out, me thinks.