Zebra3 Info

[aaron aardvark]

Urs,
It certainly would be nice if you had a Unison mode if Repro-5 becomes a product, especially if you can't have all of Repro-1's nice effects (OK, I see you answered that in another thread). Though I think Repro-5 should at least have a delay effect.

The only effect we're likely to drop/replace is JAWS. It's too CPU consuming for per-voice distortion and out of that is just plain noise. Lyrebird, ResQ, Drench and Sonic Conditioner will probably remain in Repro-5 as they are in Repro-1.

Sounds good to me!

[mrj1nx]

Forgive me if this has already been answered.

1) Will Z3's FM get any upgrades? How will it compare to the capabilities of FM8 for DX7 style phase modulation, will it be possible and how many operators will we be able to use in a single patch?

2) Will there be any further layering options besides the 4 lanes? Like lets say I want to build up two sounds and do some interesting velocity layering with them, will I need to build that in the Daw layer? (I realize the answer is probably 4 lanes is more than enough and less is more but.. for FM sounds its quite thinkable that one might run out of operators in a single layer if we can have 4 FM modules (equals 8 operators i guess?) and the 4 lanes).

3) Will Z3 be looser on the limitations on on number of modules, like 4 oscs, 4 lfo's etc.

Keep up the amazing work, huge fan!

[Sound Author]

^ I wouldn't mind having a couple more FMOs

[Urs]

There'll certainly be additions in the FM section. First of all the normal oscillators will most likely become FM carriers, either for analogue FM, DX-style phase modulation or even thru-zero FM. Maybe multiple - or all? - of these.

The FMOs will most definitely get all of these options, and maybe they'll come in pairs. Such that, one FMO might be equipped with a modulator/carrier pair. A Dual-FMO, so to speak. And maybe, if my foray into West Coast modular synthesis takes over all of my brain, FMOs will be replaced by Complex Oscillators altogether, with DX-style Phase Mod thrown in on top. In that scenario we'd have a tandem of oscillators that can modulate each other, with the second oscillator additionally running though a wavefolder. That would be three modules in one, with no option lost over the current situation. Oh my gawd, how would I like that!

(but then, separate modules will be just fine as well)

Furthermore we're toying with the idea of adding a high definition mode to Zebra 3 in which all modulations including the ModMatrix reaches beyond 10kHz control rate (currently: just below 1kHz at 44.1kHz samplerate). In that scenario, LFOs, looping MSEGs and envelopes will all be viable FM modulators, for about any parameter. But you'll probably need a 8-core Ryzen or i7 to play a chord. Ah, well, one can dream.

However: I've never been a fan of those 6x6 or similar matrix-style FM connections. While a bit of feedback is great, too much of it IMHO is just not interesting enough. I also find it less intuitive than shuffling modulators and carriers around like you do in Zebra. I actually find flipping through algorithms more intuitive and quick than swapping fields in a matrix (hmmm, let's see, I have to lower this value here and raise that one there and then... what was I trying?). One can disagree on this, but it'll be very difficult to convince me otherwise

As for 4 of everything... this will most likely continue, even more strictly so than in V2.x. As for Velocity switching and key scaling: ModMappers and Key/Velocity scaling sections will certainly become more powerful, with spline-based curve options in addition to drawable paths and linear connectors. There'll be plenty of ways to create expressiveness that way. After all, this is what Zebra is about.

- U

[mrj1nx]

Sounds like awesome upgrades

[pdxindy]

There'll certainly be additions in the FM section. First of all the normal oscillators will most likely become FM carriers, either for analogue FM, DX-style phase modulation or even thru-zero FM. Maybe multiple - or all? - of these.

The FMOs will most definitely get all of these options, and maybe they'll come in pairs. Such that, one FMO might be equipped with a modulator/carrier pair. A Dual-FMO, so to speak. And maybe, if my foray into West Coast modular synthesis takes over all of my brain, FMOs will be replaced by Complex Oscillators altogether, with DX-style Phase Mod thrown in on top. In that scenario we'd have a tandem of oscillators that can modulate each other, with the second oscillator additionally running though a wavefolder. That would be three modules in one, with no option lost over the current situation. Oh my gawd, how would I like that!

(but then, separate modules will be just fine as well)

Furthermore we're toying with the idea of adding a high definition mode to Zebra 3 in which all modulations including the ModMatrix reaches beyond 10kHz control rate (currently: just below 1kHz at 44.1kHz samplerate). In that scenario, LFOs, looping MSEGs and envelopes will all be viable FM modulators, for about any parameter. But you'll probably need a 8-core Ryzen or i7 to play a chord. Ah, well, one can dream.

However: I've never been a fan of those 6x6 or similar matrix-style FM connections. While a bit of feedback is great, too much of it IMHO is just not interesting enough. I also find it less intuitive than shuffling modulators and carriers around like you do in Zebra. I actually find flipping through algorithms more intuitive and quick than swapping fields in a matrix (hmmm, let's see, I have to lower this value here and raise that one there and then... what was I trying?). One can disagree on this, but it'll be very difficult to convince me otherwise

As for 4 of everything... this will most likely continue, even more strictly so than in V2.x. As for Velocity switching and key scaling: ModMappers and Key/Velocity scaling sections will certainly become more powerful, with spline-based curve options in addition to drawable paths and linear connectors. There'll be plenty of ways to create expressiveness that way. After all, this is what Zebra is about.

- U

drool... drool... more drool...

[N__K]

Any chance in Z3 for a module that allows for drawable "filters" like in IL Harmor - in other words, making custom Osc FX?
Or is that possible already?

[Urs]

Any chance in Z3 for a module that allows for drawable "filters" like in IL Harmor - in other words, making custom Osc FX?
Or is that possible already?

I'm a bit on the fence with that. I ruined a lot of brain cells imagining a Harmor/Alchemy-type engine blended into the concept of Zebra's oscillators. I believe there is a fundamental difference in how those two types work. Zebra's oscillators are granular in such a way that each "supersaw voice" of the engine can access the same set of grains. That's kind of the secret to its low CPU consumption for what it does.

While I haven't studied Harmor and Alchemy in depth, I believe that each voice needs to evaluate their whole spectrum in total. Such that, if it's granular, it needs a grain per oscillator voice, but if it's a vast array of parallel sine oscillators, it needs an array per voice. In Harmor this becomes quite obvious when you enable Supersaw (or Unison, whatever you call it) and the CPU goes up.

The drawback of Zebra's tech is that one can not make filters that actually change the frequency of individual harmonics. It's a drawback that in practice doesn't matter too much because there are many means in Zebra to create metallic and inharmonious sounds.

It might still be possible to create more complex filters, such as translating pictures into a harmonic spectrum. However, while pictures are neat and hi-res looking, they are IMHO too lowres for our ears. I often find that, when one scans through a picture-as-a-filter, it's more like wavesequencing than like a smoothly evolving transition. It's the-quicker-the-better, making it more usable for short sounds, or else using it really slow for vector-style synthesis. However, as soon as the sequence becomes a rhythmic pattern, it takes away from the idea. Hence, even if the concept is great and all, it doesn't beat interesting oscillator effects with just a knob or two, and - for the evolving stuff - a small set of drawable waveforms.

That said, I've designed a simple yet powerful extension to Zebra's oscillators that, if the concept works out, is going to be mindblowing (I hope). It basically allows for more interesting transitions between wavetables or spectra.

[karrikuh]

There'll certainly be additions in the FM section. [...]

That all sounds pretty awesome! Does this also mean that we get proper unison FM, i.e. each unison voice has its independent modulator-carrier pair (compared to what we have now, i.e. sum of unison modulators modulates single carrier)?

[Urs]

There'll certainly be additions in the FM section. [...]

That all sounds pretty awesome! Does this also mean that we get proper unison FM, i.e. each unison voice has its independent modulator-carrier pair (compared to what we have now, i.e. sum of unison modulators modulates single carrier)?

That's the idea, at least for 2 ops. There'll still be an external sidechain input for FM though. Hence I'm not sure if I'd extend FMOs to more than 2x unison.

A more sophisticated idea is to break up the current set of stereo channels into "how many ever unison voices" such that (only under the hood) an 8-fold unison oscillator could individually modulate each oscillator in an 8-fold unsion FMO. But then we would need a mono/stereo/unison switch for each filtering module as well, and it might blow up usability and CPU. Also, for practical means it would be similar to adopting the voice stacking feature of our other polysynths. This might be a better concept than extending FM inside the voice.

I've also thought about an unison option per lane in the Grid. That however leads to all sorts of paradox situations, e.g. when the signal jumps from one lane to another.

[N__K]

That said, I've designed a simple yet powerful extension to Zebra's oscillators that, if the concept works out, is going to be mindblowing (I hope). It basically allows for more interesting transitions between wavetables or spectra.

Thanks for answers Urs! Zebra3 is shaping up to be positively mindblowing in any case. These are good times for fans of additive synthesis

[bmrzycki]

That said, I've designed a simple yet powerful extension to Zebra's oscillators that, if the concept works out, is going to be mindblowing (I hope). It basically allows for more interesting transitions between wavetables or spectra.

Does this mean you have ideas for new Osc FX or is this something completely different? I find the Osc FX, with very small modulations (thanks Howard!), are a big part of the magic of Z2's sound.

[Urs]

That said, I've designed a simple yet powerful extension to Zebra's oscillators that, if the concept works out, is going to be mindblowing (I hope). It basically allows for more interesting transitions between wavetables or spectra.

Does this mean you have ideas for new Osc FX or is this something completely different? I find the Osc FX, with very small modulations (thanks Howard!), are a big part of the magic of Z2's sound.

Something completely different. Won't say until I have proof of concept

[Terrafractyl]

Furthermore we're toying with the idea of adding a high definition mode to Zebra 3 in which all modulations including the ModMatrix reaches beyond 10kHz control rate (currently: just below 1kHz at 44.1kHz samplerate). In that scenario, LFOs, looping MSEGs and envelopes will all be viable FM modulators, for about any parameter. But you'll probably need a 8-core Ryzen or i7 to play a chord. Ah, well, one can dream.

Oh my, I really hope you do that!

[pdxindy]

Furthermore we're toying with the idea of adding a high definition mode to Zebra 3 in which all modulations including the ModMatrix reaches beyond 10kHz control rate (currently: just below 1kHz at 44.1kHz samplerate). In that scenario, LFOs, looping MSEGs and envelopes will all be viable FM modulators, for about any parameter. But you'll probably need a 8-core Ryzen or i7 to play a chord. Ah, well, one can dream.

Oh my, I really hope you do that!

Me too!