Vital - Released

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS
Vital

Post

BONES wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:36 am
glokraw wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:15 pmEvery commenter is equipped with different types and qualities of:
cables
speakers
headphones
audio interface
room acoustics
audio config settings
personal hearing loss
knowledge of sounds and sound design
knowledge of music terminology and genres
I fail to see how that matters when making a direct comparison, given that the comparison will be made on the same equipment by each of us. That said, if something sounds great on some systems and lousy on others, then I'd be tempted to class it as lousy overall, because I think one of the most important qualities of an instrument should be its ability to be consistent across a wide variety of set-ups.
Individuals test within their own frame of reference. But groups of customers and potential customers have varied frames of reference. A reasonably fair group test would be to have a free or demo daw record/render a single simple public midi file playing the target public synth demo using several agreed upon presets.

This way each tester can access the same gear while in their own frame of reference, where they can compare among instruments at their disposal, rather than prodding the opinions of others who likely have quite different scenarios. This also puts the onus on things other than an individuals knowledge and skill, where even more variability may exist, and can be minimized in public test results.

There was a triple-blind comparison done where a Fender modeling amp was tested against a Fender tube amp, and the tube-snobs failed to discern correctly in over half their attempts. Nobody in the test knew what was what,
except the setup guy. :hihi:

We're fortunate these days that even inexpensive gear can be greatly enjoyable. and even productive when in capable hands, decades beyond the '70's quality specs.
Cheers

Edit...but who cares, anyway $$$ :hyper:

Post

mrsugmad wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:42 am
mrsugmad wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:01 am Today Plugin Guru went through Vital and showed some tips and tricks:

He will be creating new patches for Vital and Unify; Can't wait !

Anyone else watch this?
Yes. Looking forward to that (though I don't have Unify), and his 'check-this-out' walk-through on Vital. 8)
I'm not a musician, but I've designed sounds that others use to make music. http://soundcloud.com/obsidiananvil

Post

∆∆∆ He played a very nice melody from 00:00.

Post

Teksonik wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:50 am I'd go with what the developer recommends. He felt strong enough about it to put it right on the GUI. :wink:
the default is a logical balance between quality and performance, for all systems. but people with newer and/or more-powerful computers may wish you to run at 4x,for example, and the bounce out idea is not original... i got the idea from another plugin's developer.

having options means... having options.no harm in exploring those things; isn't that what we're here to do... explore?
_______________________
https://upstatebrooklyn.com

Post

fisherKing wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:53 pm the default is a logical balance between quality and performance, for all systems. but people with newer and/or more-powerful computers may wish you to run at 4x,for example, and the bounce out idea is not original... i got the idea from another plugin's developer.
I believe there are some plugins that have two oversampling settings, one for real-time and one for bouncing (called 'offline' in SynthMaster One), maybe this could be a feature request for Matt?

Post

fisherKing wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:53 pm
Teksonik wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:50 am I'd go with what the developer recommends. He felt strong enough about it to put it right on the GUI. :wink:
the default is a logical balance between quality and performance, for all systems. but people with newer and/or more-powerful computers may wish you to run at 4x,for example, and the bounce out idea is not original... i got the idea from another plugin's developer.

having options means... having options.no harm in exploring those things; isn't that what we're here to do... explore?
Of course but the question was.....
RexBanner wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:09 am So what's the recommended oversampling setting?
The answer is found right on the GUI. :wink:

Of course go ahead and try the 8 X Oversampling and then be prepared to call the Fire Department when your computer melts down. :hihi:

My DAW runs an i7 87OOK which is certainly not state of the art but it is 6 Core 12 thread with a max turbo speed of 4.7 GHz and I wouldn't try running at 8X and even 4X is pushing it so yea my recomendation would be to stick with 2 X for the time being as I think there will probably be some optimizations as Vital matures from it's original release version.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Post

fisherKing wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:53 pm
Teksonik wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:50 am I'd go with what the developer recommends. He felt strong enough about it to put it right on the GUI. :wink:
the default is a logical balance between quality and performance, for all systems. but people with newer and/or more-powerful computers may wish you to run at 4x,for example, and the bounce out idea is not original... i got the idea from another plugin's developer.

having options means... having options.no harm in exploring those things; isn't that what we're here to do... explore?
For lots of presets 4x makes no difference at all... for some it does

I have also found that with presets using filter self oscillation the pitch of the filter resonance can change slightly depending on oversampling setting

Post

Teksonik wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:02 pm
fisherKing wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:53 pm
Teksonik wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:50 am I'd go with what the developer recommends. He felt strong enough about it to put it right on the GUI. :wink:
the default is a logical balance between quality and performance, for all systems. but people with newer and/or more-powerful computers may wish you to run at 4x,for example, and the bounce out idea is not original... i got the idea from another plugin's developer.

having options means... having options.no harm in exploring those things; isn't that what we're here to do... explore?
Of course but the question was.....
RexBanner wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:09 am So what's the recommended oversampling setting?
The answer is found right on the GUI. :wink:

Of course go ahead and try the 8 X Oversampling and then be prepared to call the Fire Department when your computer melts down. :hihi:

My DAW runs an i7 87OOK which is certainly not state of the art but it is 6 Core 12 thread with a max turbo speed of 4.7 GHz and I wouldn't try running at 8X and even 4X is pushing it so yea my recomendation would be to stick with 2 X for the time being as I think there will probably be some optimizations as Vital matures from it's original release version.
sure. and i am not arguing the recommended settings, just pointing out options. if the developer insisted on running 2x oversampling, there would be no options.

i'm 2 blocks from the firehouse, so am prepared for any consequences of my willingness to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations; to boldly go where no one has gone before...
_______________________
https://upstatebrooklyn.com

Post

The options are clearly indicated on the GUI. :wink:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Post

BONES wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:22 am
Noumena wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:36 amThe clipping is an issue, Bones, is not because of the DAW, but because many many plugins do not like >0db signal coming into their inputs. If I put Vital in front of any reverb that I use (Blackhole, Reaktor 6Rev, Seventh Heaven Pro) and most of the compressors that I use, like Silika, clip like crazy.
What host are you using? I've never had a problem like that with Orion, Cubase or Studio One. Mind you, the first thing I do whenever I add anything to Studio One is to turn it down to -12dB, because defaulting to zero is just plain stupid. S1 itself even does it if you D'n'D a MIDI file in and get it to add the default GM instruments, to -10dB. So why they default to 0 when you add your own instrument is somewhat beyond my understanding. To be clear, that's all about mixing, the need to have plenty of headroom to turn up a quiet instrument/track, not because I've had a problem with clipping. I suppose it's because I am used to Orion always leaving plenty of headroom - I think it's default is -18dB or something similar.
It's not the host, its the 3rd party plugins. Stock plugins in Ableton (example) are pretty much all 32-bit floating point so none of this makes a bit of difference. That of course is not the case for 3rd party plugins which might have limits/recommendations as to what you put into them. Waves for example in their analog modeled plugins have the right information in the manual.

Headroom isn't an issue ITB with 32-bit floating point. You turn stuff down to -12dB because that's what you do, not because it means anything in a modern DAW. As you note below there is infinite headroom and no noise floor, so why do you turn stuff down to -12dB?
BONES wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:22 am
Noumena wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:36 am But gainstaging is absolutely central to my workflow (as it ought to be)
With infinite headroom and no noise floor, I consider gain staging to be an anachronism when working ITB and if I demo'd a plugin that clipped when I put a hot signal into it, I would not buy or use that plugin.
Thats your choice but many/most plugins that model any analog gear probably have a limitation just like the real equipment. And in that case gain staging is a requirement. If you don't use any of those its probably not an issue at all.

Post

Teksonik wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:45 pm The options are clearly indicated on the GUI. :wink:
what's your point exactly? we agree, there are options. i believe they can be worth exploring, if one wants to do that. but there's no harm in playing it safe, if that's what you're suggesting...
_______________________
https://upstatebrooklyn.com

Post

rezoneight wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:44 pm Headroom isn't an issue ITB with 32-bit floating point. You turn stuff down to -12dB because that's what you do, not because it means anything in a modern DAW. As you note below there is infinite headroom and no noise floor, so why do you turn stuff down to -12dB?
I use Sonimus stuff to gainstage.. To me it just sounds better to use that rather that let the internal channels "clip" and adjusting from the main volume.

Post

fisherKing wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:48 pm what's your point exactly?
My point was to simply answer the OP's question of what is the recommended oversampling setting by posting a screenshot that clearly shows not only the recommended setting but the options and their consequences. I trusted he could figure out that he could also try the other options. I felt no need to point out the obvious..... :shrug:



Vital 120720-1.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Post

Given my CPU, I'll stick to 2x, I didn't know if 1x was acceptable if a patch was too much for my CPU to handle.

Post

Teksonik wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:02 pm I think there will probably be some optimizations as Vital matures from it's original release version.
:tu:
No auto tune...

Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”