Reason Rack extension

[sellyoursoul]

If a person says that the bus comp sounds good, that is an opinion, but the bus comp is not the mixer. If I were to say that the mixer in Reaper, Cubase, S1, etc. sounds great, I would be talking smack, bus comp or no bus comp, and it is the same for Reason. A gui that is made to look like a hardware mixer doesn't change that. There just happens to be a fixed-to-the-mixer bus comp on the master in Reason.

What a strawman. When people say the "ssl mixer" and not just "the mixer" they obviously mean the ssl compressor in the mixer and word twisting this fact out of proportion so it looks like they only mean the mixer is not going to confirm any arguments that Reason users lie about the mixer.

By your definition, if I add Reacomp to the master in Reaper, and I say that the "Reaper mixer" sounds great, that isn't a misleading statement? If you think that it is misleading, what is the difference?

That is not the point at all. You said that people lie about Reason to defend it among other things about the mixer. Now you try to evade your error by turning the question into semantics and that won' t work with me. Case is that as far as whether poeple lie about Reason to defend it goes, you have nothing more substantial than what you can pull out of your arse. And that is pretty smelly. You should think twice another time when you feel the urge to claim people lie.

It isn't semantics. It is bs. I can slap any software comp on any digital software mixer and make the exact same claim that some Reason users make, that the mixer sounds great. Adding a comp to a software mixer, and then claiming that the mixer sounds a particular way, no matter how good or bad the comp sounds, is a lie.

I said that people lie and I stand by that, but let me make an exception for those who are less experienced, those who have been heavily influenced by marketing, and those who have been influenced by some of the Reason users who spread bs. Some lies that immediately come to mind about Reason/RE:

* RE is revolutionary (in what ways?)
* There is no undo with VST plugins (host dependent)
* VST plugins are unstable (some are, most commercial ones aren't)
* VST plugins are difficult to install (run an executable, enter a license #)
* The "SSL mixer" sounds great (some people like the sound of the ssl comp)
* RV7000 spring and/or plate algos are the best out there(?!)
* Reason is all you need (What is Rewire for? Why did RE come about?)
* There are no issues with installing RE plugins (check the Props forums)
* There are no issues with the Reason dongle (check the Props forums)
* Reason is the best selling daw, just behind Protools (source?)

That is just a few examples, off the top of my head.

[Flandersh]

Saying that it sounds great is like saying a cpu or a hard drive sounds great..

eh? The SSL section in the mixer is a SSL compressor bus emu and it does have a specific way of compressing the signal and thus it actually sounds like something. Simple as that. If they only mentioned the mixer without the ssl bus, you could go for the all-daw-sound-alike argument inclusive the nulling of audio, but that is not it mate and thus there are no lies involved here.

And the SSL bus comp sounds a bit distorted; like a low pass filter is added, to me compared to other SSL bus comp emu's I use.

[IncarnateX]

I can slap any software comp on any digital software mixer and make the exact same claim that some Reason users make, that the mixer sounds great.

Which they do not. They say the SSL bus sounds good and that is a subjective opinion that therefore can not be treated as a lie.
If you want to prove your claim you will have to direct us to somewhere where a reason user claims that the mixer itself sounds good without the ssl bus and I dare you to do that.

Adding a comp to a software mixer, and then claiming that the mixer sounds a particular way, no matter how good or bad the comp sounds, is a lie.

No one claims that, so that is axactly the same argument as before. Repeating it won't help. It has not become better in the meantime.

* RE is revolutionary (in what ways?)

Who says? do you have a quote? And if they do and actually think it is revolutionary to them, it is a subjective opinion and can not be treated as a lie.

Mind to quote the rest of your claims too? And remember to prove them as intentional lies and not just misunderstandings or lack of knowledge.

* The "SSL mixer" sounds great (some people like the sound of the ssl comp)

Here we go again. How can it be an intentional lie to say one think the SLL comp sounds great? I am one of them and as far as I am concerned it is not a lie that I do think it sounds great.

Try harder. What you have are lot of loose assertions that tell more about your bias toward Reason and it's users than anything else.

It isn't semantics. It is bs

so your statements are just bs?

in that case I agree and rest my case

[sellyoursoul]

I can slap any software comp on any digital software mixer and make the exact same claim that some Reason users make, that the mixer sounds great.

Which they do not. They say the SSL bus sounds good and that is a subjective opinion that therefore can not be treated as a lie.
If you want to prove your claim you will have to direct us to somewhere where a reason user claims that the mixer itself sounds good without the ssl bus and I dare you to do that.

Adding a comp to a software mixer, and then claiming that the mixer sounds a particular way, no matter how good or bad the comp sounds, is a lie.

No one claims that, so that is axactly the same argument as before. Repeating it won't help. It has not become better in the meantime.

* RE is revolutionary (in what ways?)

Who says? do you have a quote? And if they do and actually think it is revolutionary to them, it is a subjective opinion and can not be treated as a lie.

Mind to quote the rest of your claims too? And remember to prove them as intentional lies and not just misunderstandings or lack of knowledge.

* The "SSL mixer" sounds great (some people like the sound of the ssl comp)

Here we go again. How can it be an intentional lie to say one think the SLL comp sounds great? I am one of them and as far as I am concerned it is not a lie that I do think it sounds great.

Try harder. What you have are lot of loose assertions that tell more about your bias toward Reason and it's users than anything else.

It isn't semantics. It is bs

so your statements are just bs?

in that case I agree and rest my case

We can argue the mixer/comp thing all day, but outside of Reason users, no one who I know calls a a comp a mixer or vice versa. When a person says that the SSL mixer sounds a particular way, I understand that person to be talking about the mixer. Never do I remember someone saying that the SSL bus sounds a particular way. But, the mixer? Yes. The comp, yes.

I'm not going to sit here and dig up every bit that I've read and heard, but here are a few for you:


Reason is all you need 14:53
Vst plugins don't have undo, cut/paste 18:36
VST plugins are difficult to install 29:56


More about undo. 3:57

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 150f2d95a6
Reason is #2 in the daw market.

http://www.propellerheads.se/products/r ... rticle=mix
The sound of the SSL mixer.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/product- ... igure.html
RE market place is revolutionary.

There is plenty more out there, but you'll have to do your own digging. I remember reading a whole lot of this type of stuff since I stepped into Reason.

[IncarnateX]

I can slap any software comp on any digital software mixer and make the exact same claim that some Reason users make, that the mixer sounds great.

Which they do not. They say the SSL bus sounds good and that is a subjective opinion that therefore can not be treated as a lie.
If you want to prove your claim you will have to direct us to somewhere where a reason user claims that the mixer itself sounds good without the ssl bus and I dare you to do that.

Adding a comp to a software mixer, and then claiming that the mixer sounds a particular way, no matter how good or bad the comp sounds, is a lie.

No one claims that, so that is axactly the same argument as before. Repeating it won't help. It has not become better in the meantime.

* RE is revolutionary (in what ways?)

Who says? do you have a quote? And if they do and actually think it is revolutionary to them, it is a subjective opinion and can not be treated as a lie.

Mind to quote the rest of your claims too? And remember to prove them as intentional lies and not just misunderstandings or lack of knowledge.

* The "SSL mixer" sounds great (some people like the sound of the ssl comp)

Here we go again. How can it be an intentional lie to say one think the SLL comp sounds great? I am one of them and as far as I am concerned it is not a lie that I do think it sounds great.

Try harder. What you have are lot of loose assertions that tell more about your bias toward Reason and it's users than anything else.

It isn't semantics. It is bs

so your statements are just bs?

in that case I agree and rest my case

We can argue the mixer/comp thing all day, but outside of Reason users, no one who I know calls a a comp a mixer or vice versa. When a person says that the SSL mixer sounds a particular way, I understand that person to be talking about the mixer. Never do I remember someone saying that the SSL bus sounds a particular way. But, the mixer? Yes. The comp, yes.

I'm not going to sit here and dig up every bit that I've read and heard, but here are a few for you:


Reason is all you need 14:53
Vst plugins don't have undo, cut/paste 18:36
VST plugins are difficult to install 29:56


More about undo. 3:57

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 150f2d95a6
Reason is #2 in the daw market.

http://www.propellerheads.se/products/r ... rticle=mix
The sound of the SSL mixer.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/product- ... igure.html
RE market place is revolutionary.

There is plenty more out there, but you'll have to do your own digging. I remember reading a whole lot of this type of stuff since I stepped into Reason.

What a load of BS . Do you think any of this proves that anyone is lying about reason intentionally? try again mate. this time with quotes and not links. e.g. when PH talks about the mixer at the homepage , they don't say anything about whether it only concerns the mixer itself, as far as I can se they describe the mixer as whole.To l"lie" my friend, is to intentionally claim something one knows i is false,which is not the same as having opinions nor making mistakes and nor having lack of knowledge about things. You have to prove the lies and not just mistakes or opinions. I think you will have a hard time doing that, but do continue your work here. If what you really mean is that some things people believe about Reason are false, then this is not the same as they are lying either, and you should choose a better expression than lies.

[sellyoursoul]

I can slap any software comp on any digital software mixer and make the exact same claim that some Reason users make, that the mixer sounds great.

Which they do not. They say the SSL bus sounds good and that is a subjective opinion that therefore can not be treated as a lie.
If you want to prove your claim you will have to direct us to somewhere where a reason user claims that the mixer itself sounds good without the ssl bus and I dare you to do that.

Adding a comp to a software mixer, and then claiming that the mixer sounds a particular way, no matter how good or bad the comp sounds, is a lie.

No one claims that, so that is axactly the same argument as before. Repeating it won't help. It has not become better in the meantime.

* RE is revolutionary (in what ways?)

Who says? do you have a quote? And if they do and actually think it is revolutionary to them, it is a subjective opinion and can not be treated as a lie.

Mind to quote the rest of your claims too? And remember to prove them as intentional lies and not just misunderstandings or lack of knowledge.

* The "SSL mixer" sounds great (some people like the sound of the ssl comp)

Here we go again. How can it be an intentional lie to say one think the SLL comp sounds great? I am one of them and as far as I am concerned it is not a lie that I do think it sounds great.

Try harder. What you have are lot of loose assertions that tell more about your bias toward Reason and it's users than anything else.

It isn't semantics. It is bs

so your statements are just bs?

in that case I agree and rest my case

We can argue the mixer/comp thing all day, but outside of Reason users, no one who I know calls a a comp a mixer or vice versa. When a person says that the SSL mixer sounds a particular way, I understand that person to be talking about the mixer. Never do I remember someone saying that the SSL bus sounds a particular way. But, the mixer? Yes. The comp, yes.

I'm not going to sit here and dig up every bit that I've read and heard, but here are a few for you:


Reason is all you need 14:53
Vst plugins don't have undo, cut/paste 18:36
VST plugins are difficult to install 29:56


More about undo. 3:57

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 150f2d95a6
Reason is #2 in the daw market.

http://www.propellerheads.se/products/r ... rticle=mix
The sound of the SSL mixer.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/product- ... igure.html
RE market place is revolutionary.

There is plenty more out there, but you'll have to do your own digging. I remember reading a whole lot of this type of stuff since I stepped into Reason.

What a load of BS . Do you think any of this proves that anyone is lying about reason intentionally? try again mate. this time with quotes and not links. e.g. when PH talks about the mixer at the homepage , they don't say anything about whether it only concerns the mixer itself, as far as I can se they describe the mixer as whole.To l"lie" my friend, is to intentionally claim something one knows i is false,which is not the same as having opinions nor making mistakes and nor having lack of knowledge about things. You have to prove the lies and not just mistakes or opinions. I think you will have a hard time doing that, but do continue your work here. If what you really mean is that some things people believe about Reason are false, then this is not the same as they are lying either, and you should choose a better expression than lies.

If you are too lazy to click a few links, I'm not going to waste my time with you. Ta ta for now.

[IncarnateX]

If you are too lazy to click a few links, I'm not going to waste my time with you. Ta ta for now.

Come on. As far as I can see you have linked me to a lot of advertisement bullshit from PH and at least in the case of the mixer your interpretation still lacks evidence, because they describe the Ssl as part of the mixer section. Burden of evidence is on your side, you just have to:

1. Quote the statements
2. Prove they are false
3. Prove that the Reason users know they are false when they claim them

Then I'll give you they must be lying. Otherwise you can at worst prove they are mistaken.

[Flandersh]

If you are too lazy to click a few links, I'm not going to waste my time with you. Ta ta for now.

Come on. As far as I can see you have linked me to a lot of advertisement bullshit from PH and at least in the case of the mixer your interpretation still lacks evidence, because they describe the Ssl as part of the mixer section. Burden of evidence is on your side, you just have to:

1. Quote the statements
2. Prove they are false
3. Prove that the Reason users know they are false when they claim them

Then I'll give you they must be lying. Otherwise you can at worst prove they are mistaken.

"If the mixer looks like a big powerful pro mixer, that's because it is! Modeled after the SSL 9000k" My interpretation is that the SSL is not a part of the mixer section, but that the mixer is modelling the SSL 9000k in full.

Source: http://www.propellerheads.se/products/r ... icle=mixer

[IncarnateX]

"If the mixer looks like a big powerful pro mixer, that's because it is! Modeled after the SSL 9000k" My interpretation is that the SSL is not a part of the mixer section, but that the mixer is modelling the SSL 9000k in full.

Source: http://www.propellerheads.se/products/r ... icle=mixer

Right below your quote they write

the mixer in Reason has become so popular that pro mix engineers have made it their weapon of choice to tap into the clarity, punch, and analog characteristics provided by the modeled EQ or compressors on every channel... and that's not to mention the master bus compressor.

Here they refer to both the modeled EQs and compressors on every channel. And they refer to the masterbus as well, which they describe in the next paragraphs, so how did you reach your conclusion?

And where iare the lies, which @SellYourSoul claims, in these informations? Don' t get it

[sellyoursoul]

And where iare the lies, which @SellYourSoul claims, in these informations? Don' t get it

First, saying that a piece of software is the same, or sounds the same, as the analog gear that it emulates is a lie. That seems to be the new thing, though, doesn't it?

Second, do you really want me to go down the line?.....

VST plugins can and do have undo and cut/copy/paste. Saying that they don't...yes, it's a lie. While we're on the copy/paste thing, I'm reminded that Reason doesn't even allow for saving track templates. What is up with that?

VST plugins aren't any more difficult to install than RE plugins. Yes, downloads require creating accounts, but yes, an account is also required for Propellerhead software. So yes, this is a lie.

Reason is all you need. I needed things in Reason that Props show no signs of working on. So, this is another lie.

This is ridiculous, isn't it? Just continue down the line and use your noodle. You'll figure it out. I promise.

[drez]

First, saying that a piece of software is the same, or sounds the same, as the analog gear that it emulates is a lie. That seems to be the new thing, though, doesn't it?

Then by that logic, any VST that emulates analog gear is lying.

VST plugins can and do have undo and cut/copy/paste. Saying that they don't...yes, it's a lie. While we're on the copy/paste thing, I'm reminded that Reason doesn't even allow for saving track templates. What is up with that?

Not all VST's support cut and paste. Not every host supports cut and paste.
Every single RE made does and will forever support cut and paste.

VST plugins aren't any more difficult to install than RE plugins. Yes, downloads require creating accounts, but yes, an account is also required for Propellerhead software. So yes, this is a lie.

You create one account and will be able to install any RE you have ever purchased. You will be able to install those RE's from a single window, whether you buy 1 or 1000. When you have to rebuild your box, you simply have to login to one account and go to that one page and install. Without running through each VST install sequence, without remembering all those online accounts and passwords, without all the prompts and without having to know all the keys for those individual products.

I don't know if you've installed any RE's, but there is absolutely no easier method to installing plugins from multiple vendors. None. It's simple and fast. It's really not even comparable. I'll take installing reason and 20 RE's over any VST host and 20 individual plugin installers any day of the week.

Reason is all you need. I needed things in Reason that Props show no signs of working on. So, this is another lie.

The props have never said they were going to deliver something and then didn't. They may not be working on what YOU want, but they've never promised you on any of those things either. That's not a lie.

This is ridiculous, isn't it? Just continue down the line and use your noodle. You'll figure it out. I promise.

I don't understand the argument, really. If you like installing a ton of VST's, that's cool. Nobody has a problem with you doing that. Me? I hate it. So much that it's one of my main points for moving back to just Reason.

PH tried to faithfully reproduce the SSL console from the sound to the layout. That's not a lie. It's obviously what they've tried to do. They can market that however they see fit. There are tons of VSTs out there trying to emulate a prophet, a moog, pick a vendor. And they claim it. So what? Are they all lying? If they didn't recreate it 100% exactly like the original, are they all lying? If they DID, it would most likely be illegal.

[IncarnateX]

First, saying that a piece of software is the same, or sounds the same, as the analog gear that it emulates is a lie. That seems to be the new thing, though, doesn't it?.

They have not said it sounds the same as the analog gear , just that it is "modeled after" a hardware console, so please stop making a complete ass of yourself. You read Reason's advertisements with the same accuracy as the devil reads the bible and in your paranoid delusions you then assume they are intentional lies and that the same goes for all Reason users as well. You have nothing but utterly bullshit.

Second, do you really want me to go down the line?...

Not really, I have already seen enough, but if you gonna go there remember the quotes and that potentially false statements do not necessarily equal lies. But you are too confused to distinguish , aren't you?

This is ridiculous, isn't it?.

Yes your criticism of Reason users is the most ridiculous, concieted, delusional, illogical and empirically invalid I have ever seen . You argue like a ten year old kid and I think it is beyond pathetic. So now I will leave you to your ramblings and wish you a speedy recovery Mr. Lie Detector.

[Dogboy73]

at last, IMO, reason is for people from 12 to 25-30 years. Once you are 30 you prefer to play on more professional software.

You can't say Reason ain't professional, especially now when RE's are part of the game. And I turn 32 next month, and i'm not gonna start using something else. Because Reason is a professional app for music making.

I'm 39 later this week (s**t, really?!!! ). I've used anything & everything DAW wise since getting into this stuff (around the time just before Cubase introduced VST). I always come back to Reason for one reason or another. I've used Sony Acid, Cubase, Fruity Loops, Logic, Pro-Tools, Tracktion, Ableton etc. All have their merits, some where excellent & some I didn't like at all (hated Pro-Tools with a passion, FL didn't fare much better & I dont get the Ableton thing at all!!! But that's just me).

If people want to call Reason a toy that's their opinion. It doesn't matter. Personally I think that's a ridiculous view but that's my opinion, which doesn't matter either. It's like all this talk about how the SSL mixer sounds. Bulls*t!! It's purely subjective. So one person thinks it 'sounds' great, another thinks it's pants! How can that be?! It's the same with all equipment surely? I mean, what kind of a World would it be if we all thought the same thing sounded the best (whatever that means!?). All this arguing about it. It's absurd!!

[IncarnateX]

All this arguing about it. It's absurd!!

Absurd indeed, but when someone calls Reason users liars, he deserves a chance to prove he is not just a jerk. Now that my opponent clearly has failed this opportunity, I will rest my case.

[decalogue]

I'll have to chime in here once again...

I've been a Reason user since version 1.0. My overall impression of other Reason users I've come across during the years is that they - just like myself - are primarily using Reason for creative sound design purposes in the context of electronic music making. I've actually seen very few Reason users over the years who're using the software for recording guitars and doing more traditional DAW work. But that's me.

Anyway, the way I see it, Reason's status as a cool piece of software began to fade away when PH decided to flirt with traditional recording customers, i.e. when they decided to wash off the badge that suggested Reason was mainly for electronic music geeks. Today PH seems to develop Reason into the direction of an "all batteries included" DAW. And, judging by the level of music production skills PH seems to assume for their customers in their marketing, the next generation of Reason users seem to be a pretty lame, ignorant and lazy one.

If we're taking into account the huge competition in the DAW world and the hint that PH isn't exactly known for fast development cycles, I hope PH still has some secret innovation resources left in the company. If the future of Reason will just be about a bunch of Swedish hipster guys sitting in a flashy office in Stockholm, discussing what features from other DAWs they'll copy-paste and modify so that it's "done right" (as we saw in the marketing of Record: "recording done right", and as we saw with Rack Extensions: essentially VSTs done right...), well I guess there's a limit to how much you can actually sell with clever marketing before people will start to yawn.