Reason Rack extension

[kmonkey]

Just spotted this from Softube and Izotope..nice..Tsar, FET, Saturation..Izotope..



It's from video here:



(some cool new devices in video)

btw i VERY dislike their effort to constantly lie that there isn't proper undo in plugins. There is for at least decade now. And yes it works.

[RawTech]

izotope ozone maximizer. great spot

[kmonkey]

izotope ozone maximizer. great spot

Later i nvideo there is much better screenshot of everything. Seems like a lot of cool devices will be in Reason. Korg synths, Gforce, u-he etc.

I wonder how will reason CPU usage look after these devices find their way online? Hopefully they won't be crippled or something.

Also when i think about it, now there are some plugs which introduce delay (at least their VST versions) in signal path so i assume props solved this somehow..

[decalogue]

Watch @03.40 minutes into that video and they explain perfectly well what they mean by "proper undo".

How could this statement of simple facts qualify as an "effort to constantly lie that there isn't proper undo in plugins"? You surely understand that they're talking about having Ctrl+Z ALWAYS working as expected (i.e. as an integrated backspace for any kind of edit within the software) no matter what functionality the 3rd party plugin developer has implemented.

Can you do this in all other DAWs out there? Are you suggesting that you can make a couple of operations in the sequencer, load up a VSTi, tweak some parameters, make new operations in the sequencer, then go back with Ctrl+Z all the way to the point of having undo'ed the VSTi tweaked parameters you made 10 minutes ago?

I'm not much of a Reason user today, but Re changes the game for me. Reason 6.5 seems amazing and I really admire the pioneering spirit of the Props here.

[aMUSEd]

It seems to depend on the host. I'm used to being able to do this in Reaper for example that really does seem to have an undo history for everything, but was surprised when I bought Studio One that it doesn't record anything that is done using a plugin (not even inserting the plugin!) When I questioned this omission in the S1 forum I was told this was a conscious choice as the developers did not see they had any responsibility for what a plugin does in the host - incredible I felt but that's how it is. So Reason probably is not alone but it does seem to depend a lot on the developers philosophy of host/plugin interactions.

[kmonkey]

Watch @03.40 minutes into that video and they explain perfectly well what they mean by "proper undo".

How could this statement of simple facts qualify as an "effort to constantly lie that there isn't proper undo in plugins"? You surely understand that they're talking about having Ctrl+Z ALWAYS working as expected (i.e. as an integrated backspace for any kind of edit within the software) no matter what functionality the 3rd party plugin developer has implemented.

Can you do this in all other DAWs out there? Are you suggesting that you can make a couple of operations in the sequencer, load up a VSTi, tweak some parameters, make new operations in the sequencer, then go back with Ctrl+Z all the way to the point of having undo'ed the VSTi tweaked parameters you made 10 minutes ago?

HELLO WORLDDD!!!


YES !!!

again

GOD MORNING - YES!!!

For exactly same scenario you asked answer is - YEEESSSS!!!

As amused said it's up to host. Well guess what? I can do it. In fact i don't have to press ctr+z if i don't want. I have LIST of ALL Possible changes i made and i can FLIP to ANY of it ? In fact i can set up how many undos i want in that list.

Can anybody enlight me? Why on earth you (or other people) think that they (props) are doing it for the first time right? It's been there in any serious program. Quite a few of them have normal History option working as you said..

Btw i am not talking about reason Rack extension here. That's great thing but it does not have anything with normal History option.

edit:

here is screenshot - take a look in left corner..i just messed randomly with sequencer, added few notes, added few notes in piano roll, 3rd party VSTi, tweaked mixer and integrated plugs..For every my action History list is listing whatever i need it to list. With press of a mouse i can revert back.

[mr president]

personally, i cant wait for all the serious new mixing plugins such as the softube collection, and the fact they will authorize on my reason dongle without any others!!!. I only bought the upgrade 1 month ago, and ive still been processing audio between this and sonarX1 using all the new pro channel modules
for the character and getting proper feedback on phase and metering issues.
Should be able to ditch everything else and use reason as a number 1 focused application from now on, best thing they could have ever done, and kudos with the format of the product,ie rack extensions. They have solved a lot of problems with this idea...fantastic!!!

[bmrzycki]

Saw this on the twitter feed yesterday from Audio Damage -- it's been a bit under the marketing radar...

[mr president]

does this mean there will be freebies too me wonder???

[BDeep]

Rough Rider was never meant to be under the radar! It usually drives right in the radar, laughs, and squishes it.

Thanks for bringing that up btw.

[bmrzycki]

As amused said it's up to host. Well guess what? I can do it. In fact i don't have to press ctr+z if i don't want. I have LIST of ALL Possible changes i made and i can FLIP to ANY of it ? In fact i can set up how many undos i want in that list.

That only works under the following conditions:

1. The control must be exported from the VST as an automatable paramater. While most plugins do this, it's not guaranteed. Some plugins (for example Omnisphere) require you to explicitly set up parameters that the host is informed of. If one of the knobs/sliders you moved isn't in that list, it's not recorded for ctrl-z in the DAW.

2. The hard limit of 128 parameters per VST was around for quite some time and many hosts/plugs still adhere to it. This leads to problems outlined in #1.

3. The DAW itself has to be aware and properly handle it. Some do this better than others. I'm happy your DAW works how you want but you have to admit the experience can change greatly on something that's outside the plugin developer's control.

Yes Props are over-simplifying the situation because it's marketing and that's always a mix of half-truths and propaganda. However, they do have some valid points too.

[bmrzycki]

does this mean there will be freebies too me wonder???

They have already confirmed there will be the option for Devs to have free plugs if they so choose.

Pulsar will be free to purchase for the first 3 months after the store opens when 6.5 releases.

That doesn't guarantee that Rough Rider will be free though -- Chris hasn't said anything to that effect.

[mr president]

As amused said it's up to host. Well guess what? I can do it. In fact i don't have to press ctr+z if i don't want. I have LIST of ALL Possible changes i made and i can FLIP to ANY of it ? In fact i can set up how many undos i want in that list.

That only works under the following conditions:

1. The control must be exported from the VST as an automatable paramater. While most plugins do this, it's not guaranteed. Some plugins (for example Omnisphere) require you to explicitly set up parameters that the host is informed of. If one of the knobs/sliders you moved isn't in that list, it's not recorded for ctrl-z in the DAW.

2. The hard limit of 128 parameters per VST was around for quite some time and many hosts/plugs still adhere to it. This leads to problems outlined in #1.

3. The DAW itself has to be aware and properly handle it. Some do this better than others. I'm happy your DAW works how you want but you have to admit the experience can change greatly on something that's outside the plugin developer's control.

Yes Props are over-simplifying the situation because it's marketing and that's always a mix of half-truths and propaganda. However, they do have some valid points too.

same with orion, cant even undo some of the actions i make on its own drum machine, fx and synths

[kmonkey]

As amused said it's up to host. Well guess what? I can do it. In fact i don't have to press ctr+z if i don't want. I have LIST of ALL Possible changes i made and i can FLIP to ANY of it ? In fact i can set up how many undos i want in that list.

That only works under the following conditions:

1. The control must be exported from the VST as an automatable paramater. While most plugins do this, it's not guaranteed. Some plugins (for example Omnisphere) require you to explicitly set up parameters that the host is informed of. If one of the knobs/sliders you moved isn't in that list, it's not recorded for ctrl-z in the DAW.

2. The hard limit of 128 parameters per VST was around for quite some time and many hosts/plugs still adhere to it. This leads to problems outlined in #1.

3. The DAW itself has to be aware and properly handle it. Some do this better than others. I'm happy your DAW works how you want but you have to admit the experience can change greatly on something that's outside the plugin developer's control.

Yes Props are over-simplifying the situation because it's marketing and that's always a mix of half-truths and propaganda. However, they do have some valid points too.

You are right on every point (excpet first one). My point was that something like this is already available for quite some time. That is.

Of course control must be exported from the VST as an automatable paramater. Why would anyone using control which can't be automated (if memory serve me well thare are controls in Reason which also can't be automated, like in NNXT etc.) ? I would avoid such plugin. But last time when i checked, actually there wasn't any plugin which did not do that. You once have to set up parameters for Omnisphere, some Reaktor synths need it, some FXpansion to but once when you set it up you can save it as preset and recall via drag and drop so it isn't a issue IMHO.

[bmrzycki]

Of course control must be exported from the VST as an automatable paramater. Why would anyone using control which can't be automated

Because many VSTs try to be as compatible as possible with all hosts. One such compromise is the 128 parameter limit. Creating an exported list of parameters is done differently in every plugin and requires the user to do it.

Urs has said several times this is one of the driving reasons he added XY parameters to Zebra. You assign a controller to X,Y whatever and he made sure those were the first parameters in the list as told to the host.

All of this requires active intervention from the user -- something a lot of people won't do/know about until they realize it's too late. With ReRack it's baked-in, something I approve of.

(if memory serve me well thare are controls in Reason which also can't be automated, like in NNXT etc.)?

You are correct. Reason has a 128 parameter automatable limit as well. However, that does not affect undo/redo -- just automation parameters. (I'm still disappointed not all knobs in kong FX can be automated)