MeldaProduction are NOT going to stop supporting OSX platform.

[stratology]

A good captain should always trigger the alarm before the ship sinks...

Wow, the drama.

At the same time, the 'captains' of Ableton, Apogee, Focusrite, Klevgrand, Metric Halo, MOTU, RME, Sonarworks, have their wares ready and compatible with Catalina.


Some developers, like NI, are behind in compatibility pretty much every year when a new macOS version is released.

This year, some that are usually ready on release date, like Presonus, are not yet compatible.
So, while there seems to be a trend that this is a release that's more challenging than usual, it's only been less than 2 weeks since the OS release date.



Or - maybe I misunderstood, and the 'sinking ship' refers to Melda...

[stratology]

BTW - in Catalina, Apple has started the process of replacing kexts with System Extensions and DriverKit.

Can't wait for the release, several years from now, when some developers will be shocked, surprised, and very, very angry about the sudden, unannounced, surprising, evil removal of kexts.

[Tagirijus]

out of greed.

To me Meldaproduction is nearly the complete opposite of greedy . . .

Honest? Honest bitching - not honest, consequential acting on their opinion.

Not in my opinion. Harsh words sometimes (even understandable in most situations, to me though), but I would not call it ... "bitching".

Just f**k Off!

I am nearly impressed how you really do not seem to care to try to act at least a bit mature, as it seems to me.

Look at their installer for macOS

I canot say anything about the look of the installer, since I do not know how it looks. Luckily I would not even care if it looked the worst on Windows, since ... well it's just an installer after all.

Same for the UI - the user interface of Melda plug-ins would not have looked out of place in 1995. Compare that to guys who care - like the interface choices of U-He Presswerk, that make lots of options and complexity easy to use.

You can customize Melda plugins GUI quite heavily without much effort. And at this point I would just say: well, use other plugins then, if you do not like to work with them. Seems like a matter of taste and everybody has its own taste, which is totally ok.

On the technical site I would call Melda rather way ahead of its time. (MPs and MODs in nearly every plugin, reverb algo language in MTR, complex building possibilities of nearly new plugins within MXXX, all plugins are incredible CPU friendly, etc. ... moreover it seems to me that Meldaproduction has a very forward looking framework built up to built their tools on, allowing easy and future oriented implementations of new features, fixes, etc. It just feels quite forward thinking to me, though)

If we can continue an actual technical discussion in this manner, without personal attacks, the thread would lead somewhere, and become interesting.

That's what I was in favor for in the first place. Some people here should just put their emotions aside.

Some developers, like NI, are behind in compatibility pretty much every year when a new macOS version is released.

Sorry for offtopic: I am no mac user, but regarding NI I once thought they were already dead, haha.

[Audiospaceman]

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain

"Men do not accept their prophets and slay them, but they love their martyrs and worship those whom they have tortured to death." - Fyodor Dostoevsky

Reading this thread is giving a whole new (old) sense to the above statements...
Real gratitude, love and understanding might save us from worst.

Long live to Melda and all developers devoted to bring real innovation and an "out of the box" approach to established ways of thinking!!

[MeldaProduction]

First of all, thank you folks!

Now since I noticed people ended up arguing, insulting each and stuff, I'll just a make a final statement and close this thread

- What OS you use doesn't really say anything about you!
Windows and OSX are both usable systems, some like the first, others the second. Fine with me. But it's not fine with me, if the developer of these systems treats us developers like s*** and force us to do their work, which is the case of OSX.

- We are still going to work on OSX compatibility, but it doesn't make Apple better.
Users of every platform should know what the problems are. If they cannot handle the truth, then their relationship to their computers apparently becomes a bit odd. I got many wastly different responses to the tutorials, from "Thanks you for speaking up!" (from OSX users) to "You insulted me and I'll never buy anything from you!"... It's pretty clear that there are both users and, well, something else... The way I see it, computer should be a tool, not a religion.

- The fact that the manufacturer announces removal of something a few years ahead doesn't make it right!
All of us manuyfacturers keep backwards compatibility for our users, and so should the OS manufacturers for us. Just because years back they come with something stupid doesn't mean they can remove it whenever they want and force us devs to pay the bill. That's what I like about Microsoft. Their SDK is oldschool, but extensible and if you don't need the new features (which pretty much none of us do), you can just use the old version. They thought about future. Apple just comes up with something, later they find it sucks, and instead of emulating it using the new "better" SDK they just say "use the new one developers, bye bye". Not ok...

The point is, I want to develop software for our users, not spend my lives fixing compatibility issues caused by an OS developer for no reason... but we live in a very sad world...

[stratology]

I canot say anything about the look of the installer, since I do not know how it looks.
...

You can customize Melda plugins GUI quite heavily without much effort.

OK, design is not primarily about looks, it's about usability.

Having the option to choose between 10 skins that each look equally horrible and share the same functionality issues is not an indication of good design. It's the opposite - not having the courage to make reasonable choices.

Good design is also about consistency. Consistency with the OS, with other plug-ins from the same manufacturer, etc.



Examples:
- the installer offers a 'Clean up' option.
Either deleting old plug-in versions is necessary for a correct install of new ones, or it's not. So 'clean up' should either be automatic, without user interaction, or be removed from the install process. Offering users a choice to delete plug-ins before the installer continues is nonsensical. How to you choose if it's necessary? It assumes that users know more about what is going on under the hood than the developers.

- when you open a plug-in (say, MAutopanMB) and click on the right arrow to choose a preset, then click again to choose the 2nd one, nothing happens, because the location of the right arrow has jumped to the right. There is no consistent position of the button for preset choice.

- when you click a button to open a new part of the UI, like the Toolbar, the 'open' button disappears, and a new 'close' button appears a different location.
Consistent design would be that a UI element opens and closes an area of the UI, not that it disappears. The new 'Close' button has a label and a symbol that is different to all other 'close' buttons in the system. There is no visible connection between the buttons that open and close the Toolbar, no coherent label for both, no relation between the location of the buttons.

- when you open the preset window and navigate presets with the arrow keys on your keyboard, newly selected presets do not load. When you use the arrows in the preset window, the next preset loads.

- when, in the same 'Presets' window, you click the delete button, you get a pop up window. The window title is 'Question' (no joke), is has disproportionately small, multicoloured text, and has 'Yes' and 'No' buttons. The very first thing that anybody who is interested in UI design learns is that you never label buttons 'Yes' or 'No', you always give them descriptive names, like 'Delete' and 'Cancel'. You also make sure that the button that refers to the return key on the keyboard is highlighted. UI design literally does not get more basic than this.

- the 'minimise', 'close' and 'maximise' buttons are inconsistent with buttons with the same function all across the system. They look different, function differently, and are in the wrong position (top right of the window, instead of top left).

- when you hover the mouse cursor over these buttons, it changes from an arrow to a hand symbol for no reason. This is also inconsistent with the OS, and every other well designed plug-in.

- when you hit the 'Edit' button in the main window, it jumps sideways to a different location in the UI. Lots of buttons jump around randomly, and change size randomly, when you click them.

- when you have the 'Style Configuration' window open, the size of the window and position of the window changes when you switch between different styles, with the 'size' selection remaining on 100%.

- if you look at buttons across the UI, some are text only, some are symbol only, some are text and symbol. Inconsistent with each other, and nonsensical - when you have a 'Delete' button, there is no need for a trash can symbol font in front of the first letter. And it mixes metaphors - symbols and text - in button labels.

- some windows have a large 'Close' button at the bottom - instead of the small, red close button that you see in every single other window in the OS. Some windows have a large 'ok' button at the bottom, that has the exact same purpose as the 'Close' button.

- when you move the arrow cursor from the DAW window, or the window of any other plug-in that is open, to the window of a Melda plug-in, the size of the default arrow cursor changes (it gets bigger).



Show me one other plug-in manufacturer who gets all these basics wrong...

[Haptix]

Apple

"OK, design is not primarily about looks, it's about usability."

- Apple

[MeldaProduction]

How on earth can I close the topic? I just don't seem to be able to find it

[Haptix]

"It just works"


Sorry, Ill stop posting this sh** now

[hansmai]

melda says: What OS you use doesn't really say anything about you!

suddenly ? Oh thanks, I feel so relieved

Melda says: If they cannot handle the truth, then their relationship to their computers apparently becomes a bit odd.

Yeah; my relationship with my computer is odd and I cannot handle the truth . Please help me....


Haptic says :Sorry, Ill stop posting this sh** now

Yes do this and follow your Master's voice

[Haptix]

Apple's voice? I tried, but the plugin would not load..

[onerob]

I've been reading some of the developer comments in the "DSP and Plug-in Development" part of KVR. I can see things are frustrating for them, especially when it comes to OpenGL being deprecated. Could these guys set up an industry body to act as a pressure group that makes its views known to Apple? You might scoff and say "they won't listen -- they're NAZIS!" but they've done plenty of things recently which indicate that some complaints are heard.

Personally I don't like the idea of software technology being frozen for 20 years to make life super-comfortable for programmers, but on the other hand, Apple need to understand the impact of the changes they make.

[Tagirijus]

OK, design is not primarily about looks, it's about usability.

I understand that. In that case I'd just say that I do find all the Melda plugins very easy to handle.

Having the option to choose between 10 skins that each look equally horrible and share the same functionality issues is not an indication of good design. It's the opposite - not having the courage to make reasonable choices.

Melda already deleted some old skins, if I am right. So decisions were made. Also with setting a new default theme in one of the last updates. Regarding the look of the skinds: yeah, that's a matter of taste and I totally understand your point. There are indeed some skins, I also would just get rid of, but other user do not - so in my eyes its a move by Melda to please some of the users.

Good design is also about consistency. Consistency with the OS, with other plug-ins from the same manufacturer, etc.

The Melda plugins are 100% consistent to each other. I mean .. they share even the same framework / engine, I guess. Maybe I am not getting your point, though.

- the installer offers a 'Clean up' option.

I think this was introduced for the switch from 10 to 11? 11 to 12? 12 to 13? Something like this. It is not a uninstall thing, but some compability option or so for a major version change. IIRC. Maybe for the v14 installer it will be gone.

- when you open a plug-in (say, MAutopanMB) and click on the right arrow to choose a preset, then click again to choose the 2nd one, nothing happens, because the location of the right arrow has jumped to the right. There is no consistent position of the button for preset choice.

Hm ok. I cannot say something about this now, since I am not at my machine! But maybe you have a point here.

- when you click a button to open a new part of the UI, like the Toolbar, the 'open' button disappears, and a new 'close' button appears a different location.

I also cannot check this, but to me the close / open buttons did never feel wrong in a way to me, though.

- when you open the preset window and navigate presets with the arrow keys on your keyboard, newly selected presets do not load. When you use the arrows in the preset window, the next preset loads.

According to one of your previous points this is consistency with the OS, right? If I use the arror keys in Windows, it just selects something, but does not execute it.

- when, in the same 'Presets' window, you click the delete button, you get a pop up window. The window title is 'Question' (no joke), is has disproportionately small, multicoloured text, and has 'Yes' and 'No' buttons. The very first thing that anybody who is interested in UI design learns is that you never label buttons 'Yes' or 'No', you always give them descriptive names, like 'Delete' and 'Cancel'. You also make sure that the button that refers to the return key on the keyboard is highlighted. UI design literally does not get more basic than this.

Also a nice point, in my opinion.

- the 'minimise', 'close' and 'maximise' buttons are inconsistent with buttons with the same function all across the system. They look different, function differently, and are in the wrong position (top right of the window, instead of top left).

What? In Windows as well? I remember these buttons to be the same as in Windows. Hm, I will check all your points when I am back at my machine, for sure. I find it interesting.

- when you hover the mouse cursor over these buttons, it changes from an arrow to a hand symbol for no reason. This is also inconsistent with the OS, and every other well designed plug-in.

Like you write it, it also feels like a good point here, hehe. Also never noticed this to be somehow "wrong" to my feel, ... but I am really no GUI guy, for sure.

- when you hit the 'Edit' button in the main window, it jumps sideways to a different location in the UI. Lots of buttons jump around randomly, and change size randomly, when you click them.

The edit button is something to me that makes the plugin become something way more important and somhow "different". Still I will pay more attention to this one, when using it the next time.

- if you look at buttons across the UI, some are text only, some are symbol only, some are text and symbol. Inconsistent with each other, and nonsensical - when you have a 'Delete' button, there is no need for a trash can symbol font in front of the first letter. And it mixes metaphors - symbols and text - in button labels.

Also a good point.

- some windows have a large 'Close' button at the bottom - instead of the small, red close button that you see in every single other window in the OS. Some windows have a large 'ok' button at the bottom, that has the exact same purpose as the 'Close' button.

- when you move the arrow cursor from the DAW window, or the window of any other plug-in that is open, to the window of a Melda plug-in, the size of the default arrow cursor changes (it gets bigger).

I also did not notice such things. Will look at them as well. While I really never notices my mouse getting different, on Melda tools. If the thread won't be closed too soon, I'd like to discuss these things further. Maybe Vojtech would jump in and would accept some valid feedback, who knows. Maybe in a new thread or so.

Show me one other plug-in manufacturer who gets all these basics wrong...

If only I could. Seems to me that I am just bad at recognizing such things at all. Haha.

How on earth can I close the topic? I just don't seem to be able to find it

Oh oh!

[chk071]

How on earth can I close the topic? I just don't seem to be able to find it

Below the thread. One of the tools on the left.

[Haptix]

hmm. maybe the forum is running on macos catalina and the close tool is still in the notarisation process. could be. you never know.