Reason 3.0 announced

[Amberience]

I sort of agree with you Zircon, but maybe we should look at these new devices as advanced sound sculpting tools.

Y'know the sound you get from a compressor when you've got the ratio too high and the release too low?? I love that sound.. its like a gate, but not...

Anyway, I always look at effects as ways of sculpting sound, not ways of making it sound conventionally "better".

I don't fall for the industry "standards" jargon... its all bullshit. If it sounds good to you, as the composer, then it is good.

[drez]

Not quite what I mean - with the V-Synth, you can have two osc signals mix and run through a TB303 filter followed by a sideband fitler. Or, you could have one osc run through a distortion amp module, and the other run through a formant filter, then have one of those filtered osc signals ring modulate the other. Or frequency modulate the other. Or you could have one osc run through a bitrate/samplerate reducer, hard sync with the second osc (which is not going through anything yet), and have the resulting signal pass through a speaker-modeling module.

This is EXACTLY what you can do with Spiders in Reason! You can take copies of audio outputs and route them through as many pathways as you want. Youo can take an Waveform Sample from a Moog running in an NNXT and run that to an audio spider. Then you can take 4 copies of those audio streams and run them to whatever you want. You can even chain those audio spiders together for an unlimited number of audio stream copies.

You want bit reduction? Check out the Scream4, it does it. Do you want to frequency modulate something going through a Filter? Then use the OTHER side of the Audio spider that COMBINES streams and run them through a differen Malstrom Filter. Want to have everything sync up to an LFO? Create a Subtractor and use its LFO CV output run to a CV Spider and now you can control an unlimited number of CV inputs on all of the modules so you can sync up filter sweeps, formant changes on Malstrom Oscilators that you are running filters through, etc. Need a second, third, fourth (you get the picture) oscillator? Add another Malstrom/Subtractor and use it, route it through the spiders and so on.

NOW, with the combinator, you can control that LFO with a knob and change all of the modules with one turn of your controller knob because you have already connected them up via CV routing, and the Subtractor LFO is the master. Want to layer it up with some different synth sounds? No problem, just drop those into the combinator as well. Got about 50 modules going? No problem...you can save the whole thing as a preset and send it to me so I can hear what a great "synth" you just created

This is just one example, but it does the same thing that the V-synth does except you aren't just limited to 2 osc because you can add as many modules as you want in a combinator and play them at the same time if you want, plus you can sequence all of the filter changes or misc modules that might give it some movement.

THAT is why hitting TAB is so important and using spiders to route your signals.

I'm not trying to downplay the quality of Reason synths here, but they're still limited in what they can do, just like Reason is (and always will be, because Prop wants to keep out audio recording and VST hosting). Which brings me back to the point I keep repeating, which is that Reason 3.0 should implement more effect machines and synths, because that's what it does best anyway.

I agree, I'd love some more modules, but I think they did the right thing by creating the combinator first. I believe the modules will come in the next .5 update. At least I hope so

[drez]

... I don't think spending time and money on developing mastering tools for Reason is a good idea.

You should see some of the stuff people are doing with the stereo imager in the combinator...think frequency splits controlling multiple compressors...NICE compressors...all saved in one combinator controlled with the assignable combinator contollers (knobs and buttons)

That's as far as I'll push my NDA agreement.

[headquest]

surprise module? you guys are really reaching into
fantasy land.

No.

Propellerheads have revealed on the .plan files on their web site that there WILL be a further FIVE modules added in 2005 in addition to those so far announce.

Eat that.

[Muzik 4 Machines]

surprise module? you guys are really reaching into
fantasy land.

No.

Propellerheads have revealed on the .plan files on their web site that there WILL be a further FIVE modules added in 2005 in addition to those so far announce.

Eat that.

wich modules are they?

[nuffink]

Propellerheads have revealed on the .plan files on their web site that there WILL be a further FIVE modules added in 2005 in addition to those so far announce.

Eat that.

Hmmm. The company that never drops hints, dropping hints?
Could it be that 3.0 hasn't been warmly received?
Surely not.

[AD80]

I don't think there is a Reason user out there who would not love to see more effects and synths in Reason.

Oh really, thats good to know. Whenever I talk about the lack of new devices in Reason, I get some newbie zealot trying to tell me that "Reason is fine how it is", or "you just have to find work around", or "You can build your own with the Combinator" . Yeah like if I layer 3 Steinberg Neon's I'll magically get something as good as Imposcar.

I dont get why people feel like defending Reasons slow development times when everybody would benefit from new devices. It baffles me. Especially coming from new users. The Props need to get their ass in gear and fast. I know atleast 3 people who are not upgrading. I know thats just a drop in the bucket but all 3 of these people have been with Reason since version 1.0000.

[drez]

Yeah like if I layer 3 Steinberg Neon's I'll magically get something as good as Imposcar.

Well, if you play 3 Neon's at the same time without doing anything to them and they are all on the same patch, then I don't see where that would be beneficial. But if you take 3 Subtractors on separate patches through completely different routings through completely different signal paths with different filters and effects, then you will definitely get a different sound then that of 3 subtractors running the same patch going straight into 3 channels on a mixer. I don't see where your comparison is an accurate representation of what reason is capable of.

The combinator with spiders allows you to separate and combine sound sources from many different modules. I like to program that way.

IMHO, I think everyone will be surprised at how good the sounds are that come out of the Combinator with the existing modules.

I dont get why people feel like defending Reasons slow development times when everybody would benefit from new devices. It baffles me. Especially coming from new users. The Props need to get their ass in gear and fast. I know atleast 3 people who are not upgrading. I know thats just a drop in the bucket but all 3 of these people have been with Reason since version 1.0000.

Personally, I am going to benefit more from the 3.0 update than if they just put in more modules. I use Reason Live and this update is going to allow me to do this in a way I never thought possible. Being able to layer modules and do splits across the keyboard with presets that I can step through is a major deal for me. Stepping through matrix and drum patterns at the push of a controller button on my keyboard is a major deal for me as well.

I guess time will tell either way.

[headquest]

surprise module? you guys are really reaching into
fantasy land.

No.

Propellerheads have revealed on the .plan files on their web site that there WILL be a further FIVE modules added in 2005 in addition to those so far announce.

Eat that.

wich modules are they?

It could just be a rumour (circulating on the propellerhead and ableton registered forums). Certainly no annoucement about precisely what they are. They have certainly taken on more programmers so I don't think the props are about to disappear or stop developing existing and new products.

Regarding ongoing developments I understand why (for example) AD80 would like to see continued improvements, and there are certainly changes I would be keen to see in future upgrades.

However from my perspective Reason is an instrument. As such it needs learning, practice and then using for making music. Some programs seem to change so regularly that you struggle to get past the learning stage! There are so often threads here started by people saying " I have used wonderful software X since Version 1 but I just don't get *feature y* in the new *version z". Can you help??!!

Buy a violin and you can still be enjoying it years later. For that matter people who bought a Prophet 5 can still make THAT sound now (so long as they've looked after it).

I think of Reason in the same way. It's a great set of sounds that I can easily access in my chosen sequencer (Live 4 for me at present, but take your pick) and use as an instrument.

The fact that you can use it standalone is a great bonus - and with the SIX new modules in v.3, coupled with the enhanced GUI, improved sequencer, brand new sound-set, and better browser facility, Reason is about to get substantially better .

[AD80]

Personally, I am going to benefit more from the 3.0 update than if they just put in more modules.

Thats the thing, why does it have to be either or? Why not both the new Combinator AND new modules? ITS BEEN TWO YEARS! And not everybody uses reason as some type of stand alone sound module. If you dont like using Rewire Reason has some serious gaps that need to be filled ASAP.

[headquest]

Personally, I am going to benefit more from the 3.0 update than if they just put in more modules.

Thats the thing, why does it have to be either or? Why not both the new Combinator AND new modules? ITS BEEN TWO YEARS! And not everybody uses reason as some type of stand alone sound module. If you dont like using Rewire Reason has some serious gaps that need to be filled ASAP.

Are the six new modules and other enhancements really so disappointing?

Reason is still Reason, but I think it just got better. Obviously we'll only know once we get hold of it though.

[AD80]

Well, if you play 3 Neon's at the same time without doing anything to them and they are all on the same patch, then I don't see where that would be beneficial. But if you take 3 Subtractors on separate patches through completely different routings through completely different signal paths with different filters and effects, then you will definitely get a different sound then that of 3 subtractors running the same patch going straight into 3 channels on a mixer. I don't see where your comparison is an accurate representation of what reason is capable of.

The combinator with spiders allows you to separate and combine sound sources from many different modules. I like to program that way.

IMHO, I think everyone will be surprised at how good the sounds are that come out of the Combinator with the existing modules.

If you take 3 subtractors on separate patches through completely different routings through completely different signal paths with different filters and effects, then you'll just end up with 3 crappy signals blended together becuase the Subtractor is a 5 year old piece of crap.

And if you dont see how my comparison is an accurate description of what Reason is capabel of then you've never used EXT or Tracktion or Bidule or any other mudular VST host. I have, thats how I know the better the modules the better the sound. Reason needs new and better generators.

[AD80]

Are the six new modules and other enhancements really so disappointing?

After this long, yes. Dissapointing in amount not quality since I havent heard any of them yet. But I very much doubt they'll be as good as the mastering plugs I already own. No new generators? Not even 1? Why would I blend 2 subtractors together when I can blend 2 albinos already? To you it might be a big improvement, but I'm not very happy as a long time Reason user.

[drez]

Personally, I am going to benefit more from the 3.0 update than if they just put in more modules.

Thats the thing, why does it have to be either or? Why not both the new Combinator AND new modules? ITS BEEN TWO YEARS! And not everybody uses reason as some type of stand alone sound module. If you dont like using Rewire Reason has some serious gaps that need to be filled ASAP.

I see your point.

I think that they have been working on other avenues as a company. Some of the refills, education stuff, and whatnot. They definitely are a perfection oriented company. No bugs seem are tolerated upon penalty of death

Maybe they just don't have the resources to do it all. Tage said on the forums that they have been working on version 3 AFTER the recycle upgrade and some of the other things, so I don't believe that they have been developing non stop.

That said, I hope the .5 upgrade comes up kinda like the 2.5 did and it addresses some of the issues you guys have raised. New modules would be spectacular I'm sure, espically based on how they do them. The NNXT is definitely an interesting sampler with certain capabilities that other samplers don't have. Sometimes I think that they won't release something that anybody else has. The Malstrom was the first of its kind, so I hope they don't just throw in some run-of-the-mill modules in there. Hopefully they will be as great as their predecessors.

[headquest]

Are the six new modules and other enhancements really so disappointing?

After this long, yes. Dissapointing in amount not quality since I havent heard any of them yet. But I very much doubt they'll be as good as the mastering plugs I already own. No new generators? Not even 1? Why would I blend 2 subtractors together when I can blend 2 albinos already? To you it might be a big improvement, but I'm not very happy as a long time Reason user.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you'll try out v.3 just to check whether it works for you.

I master in Audition (using its own effects and some plugins) and I tend to share your view that the new MClass mastering effects are unlikely to be as good. HOWEVER - I do think that the seperate modules - especially the compressor and EQ - should be useful as inserts.

I'm also quite interested in the new 6-track mixers. Using Reason in ReWire mode, I think I may well end up wiring a few mini-mixers into seperate audio paris in the hardware interface before taking tracks into Audition or Live for fuller mixing/bouncing to loops.

I think the reason that our response to v.3 is different boils bown to our use for the Reason software... for example...

drez uses Reason live, so he's delighted in the upgrade, which by Propellerhead's announcement is particularly geared towards making Reason an easier program to use in this context.

AD80 - I get the impression from your posts over the last few months that you have a more experimental approach than I do, and I can understand why you are more excited by eXT and Bidule's modular approach. I know that you can seriously mangle sounds and experiment in those programmes - more so than Reason (but give the Combinator a try!)

For my part I come from a more traditional background, and use Reason as a sound-source. If I score something in Sibelius I would rather bring it into Reason as a MIDI file and use the NN-XT orchestral samples than stay in Sibelius and use its bundled Kontakt sounds. Reason gives more life and opportunity to apply decent effects, etc.