Bargain Center: discussion, gossip, etc.

[Kypresso]

Steinberg Festive Countdown 2017:

https://www.steinberg.net/en/promotion/ ... _2017.html

Day 1 is a chance to win a merchandise package which is a bit lame. But the rules seem to indicate that future days will have sale items.

Day 2: 30% off HALion 6 (I hope that this one is available for everyone)

Nope. I managed to get access through a VPN but once you VPN'ed into the European Union you get charged VAT which makes the benefit marginal anyway.

Did you try just accessing the site local to you?

The t&c's say:
"11. Availability of sales offers: Due to technical reasons not all sales offers will be available worldwide. Downloadable products will be available worldwide, whereas products that need to be shipped as a physical good will only be available in some countries. In general, the availability of the products through the Steinberg online shop in the respective country is determining."

If its downloadable for you normally, it seems that you can get the deal locally.

[Rational]

It's simple math. Give someone a subscription for $20 a month. You now have $20 a month.

Give someone a $25 voucher every month, which they use against a $49 plugin every month. You now have $24 a month. Or maybe every other month that person decides to go for that $99 plugin instead of the $49. That's $49 a month.

The math don't lie. Their voucher + sale business model is superior to a subscription in basically every way. You own your plugin for life, they build more goodwill, and they leave you the option of spending a lot of money during a month (which you would never do with an everything subscription, because why would you?)

And once you're at the level that they're giving you $75 vouchers? You already own a ton of their plugins, so they up the ante. You know what that $75 voucher gets them? A ton of people with $25 vouchers trying to get to that level, because it's so desirable.

Or maybe you use your voucher on a bunch of plugins you don't really care about, so you flip them on the marketplace. Guess what? That's $20 a pop for them also. Still better than selling you a subscription.

One of the most intelligently insightful posts I've read in awhile. Excellent points!

Slate. You need to read this.

Try some higher level marketing algos like you are doing with your plugins. Fabrice would likely agree.

Just goes to show that a bit of Brand loyalty goes a long way because I certainly feel that PA have taken good care of me over the years whereas I don't see a similar model from any other big name vendors.

This was also spot on.

What's funny is I tried to tell east-west this exact thing like 6 or 7 years ago and got severely rebuffed. As an alternative idea, if vendors really want to do a subscription thing, they should do it like Audible.com does. $22 a month or so or something not so strenuous that it will feel impactful, and yet you end up owning an increasing number of plugins over time. Either each month or somehow as it builds. I now own 85+ audio books that I can choose to listen to while driving to work. It was painless. I don't remember spending the money because it was so low of a barrier to entry I didn't notice it over time. And the entire time I could shut it off whenever I wanted if my funds were low that month. Then restart it without having to even contact anyone there. It's allowed me to turn it on when my interests increased again and shut it off when I needed to with no loss in my investment. I've had it on for 8 years now and my audible library continues to increase. They win, I win. And my money didn't just 'disappear' after the month ended leaving me with nothing. I have a library now usable permanently.

Like I keep saying, PA is the smartest with their marketing design and this benefits me and them mutually over the long term. Smart.

Companies reading this: Do it too......... No one is stopping you from profiting more by having better sales methods. Listen to the market. We're trying to help you help us spend more.... Hellow! McFly! Anybody home!?

I hope there is.

And I'm edified to read that others agree that PA rocks and is building loyalty in us.

[OneOfManyPauls]

I don't think it's as clear cut as that makes out.

With a subscription model the buyer gets access to *all* the plugins for the $20 a month - whereas with vouchers to achieve the same level of access will take a lot of money and *time*. If the buyer is using the plugins to help generate revenue then the sub cost can quickly become trivial. Then again, in real terms for most regular plugin buyers, $20 a month is trivial compared to spend-to-own.

From a devs point of view, it would require looking at how the sub's retention rate held up over time vs the amount people spend with the voucher incentive. I expect it would be a lot harder to skip a subscription payment if you've hooked into using a ton of their plugins vs skipping a month on the voucher system. Plus there's always new shiny-shiny out there vying for our GAS spend.

That steady stream of relatively dependable sub revenue (thanks to the law of large numbers) could be very attractive in terms of business planning and development.

I think it's important to consider that a few people on a forum that is pretty much a GAS-addict group might not be totally representative of the whole.

Jjust to add, I get the big downside with subs is that if you step off the wheel then you lose access to the things you used previously whereas if you only use things you own then in theory you always have access to the tools you used, bar selling them or os-caused breakages. Then again, the dip-back-in cost is low enough for that to not be the biggest issue in the world.

[mgw38]

Steinberg Festive Countdown 2017:

https://www.steinberg.net/en/promotion/ ... _2017.html

Day 1 is a chance to win a merchandise package which is a bit lame. But the rules seem to indicate that future days will have sale items.

Day 2: 30% off HALion 6 (I hope that this one is available for everyone)

Nope. I managed to get access through a VPN but once you VPN'ed into the European Union you get charged VAT which makes the benefit marginal anyway.

Did you try just accessing the site local to you?

If its downloadable for you normally, it seems that you can get the deal locally.

It’s quite weird actually. The site pops in and out of existance. I was able to access it through the US site earlier today and now it is back to “no US customers”. Probably some caching somewhere. The only thing I’m really interested in is the Halion 6 upgrade and that was not included in the deal anyway.

[Rational]

I think it's important to consider that a few people on a forum that is pretty much a GAS-addict group might not be totally representative of the whole.

Quote of the month right there!

I was thinking the same thing earlier. We're unique in that we're on the cutting edge of the shopping skillset. We expect both quality and quantity simultaneously at the lowest price point to maximize the value proposition. Many are too uncaring, busy or not thoughtful enough to realize they should be.

[Roosh]

We expect both quality and quantity simultaneously at the lowest price point to maximize the value proposition. Many are too uncaring, busy or not thoughtful enough to realize they should be.

True and I would add to that some people are fortunate enough to have a good enough income to not have to worry about seeking out the best possible deal.

I think the way the audio business is structured usually caters for both and that's good. Companies bring stuff out at a higher price for the pros and the better-off hobbyists then later drop the price in sales for the less well off. Win-win.

[Rational]

True. Good point. I'm fortunate to have the good enough income and also want to maximize it though. But the older I get and the negatives of some of it have begun to wear thin for me. I'm reaching a point where it wouldn't take much for me to drop the pursuit of more actually.

[JonSolo]

I am disappointed in Steinberg. If there were laws in place that required a limitation on their sale, then I can see limiting it. In fact I prefer they not break laws. Otherwise I view it as pure discrimination. Being a fan of Steinberg products makes it especially hard because you never want to see a company with such great tools act like a tool.

[Fleer]

From a devs point of view, it would require looking at how the sub's retention rate held up over time vs the amount people spend with the voucher incentive. I expect it would be a lot harder to skip a subscription payment if you've hooked into using a ton of their plugins vs skipping a month on the voucher system. Plus there's always new shiny-shiny out there vying for our GAS spend.

That steady stream of relatively dependable sub revenue (thanks to the law of large numbers) could be very attractive in terms of business planning and development.

I think we (old) plugin buyers dropped the ball when we accepted downloads instead of physical boxes and I believe subscriptions are the next logical step.
So, no physical boxes, no physical ownership.
But I’ll say it again. As my next car will not be electric because I love the sound of a “real” engine, my next plugin will be purchased, not subscribed to.
Then why did I ever accept non-physical (downloaded) delivery in the first place?
Convenience, for sure.
I’m a slut.

[OneOfManyPauls]

I think we (old) plugin buyers dropped the ball when we accepted downloads instead of physical boxes and I believe subscriptions are the next logical step.
So, no physical boxes, no physical ownership.
But I’ll say it again. As my next car will not be electric because I love the sound of a “real” engine, my next plugin will be purchased, not subscribed to.
Then why did I ever accept non-physical (downloaded) delivery in the first place?
Convenience, for sure.
I’m a slut.

One potential problem down the line with subscription is if the developer stop offering the sub (either voluntarily or going out of business/being bought out etc) - not sure what happens at that point.

Funnily enough, my next car actually will be electric - which is a big change from the big horsepower v8/v10s that I've gone for in the past. I've been won over by the performance of the new breed.

Still not taken out any plugin subs yet though....

[dzilizzi]

I think we (old) plugin buyers dropped the ball when we accepted downloads instead of physical boxes and I believe subscriptions are the next logical step.
So, no physical boxes, no physical ownership.
But I’ll say it again. As my next car will not be electric because I love the sound of a “real” engine, my next plugin will be purchased, not subscribed to.
Then why did I ever accept non-physical (downloaded) delivery in the first place?
Convenience, for sure.
I’m a slut.

One potential problem down the line with subscription is if the developer stop offering the sub (either voluntarily or going out of business/being bought out etc) - not sure what happens at that point.

Funnily enough, my next car actually will be electric - which is a big change from the big horsepower v8/v10s that I've gone for in the past. I've been won over by the performance of the new breed.

Still not taken out any plugin subs yet though....

Although I miss having a CD/DVD, I don't miss needing 20 of them to load a program on my computer. As hard drive space gets cheaper, the stuff included with a lot of programs gets larger - which is great. But changing disks every few minutes, not so fun. 20 files that automatically run is great.

On the downside, now I have to back up everything where I used to just keep a bunch of disks

That said, what happens when the subscription company no longer carries your favorite plugin because they now have something new and better that you don't like. Or your car runs out of electricity in the middle of the desert. Do tow truck operators carry chargers like they do cans of gas?

[Psyclapse]

I think we (old) plugin buyers dropped the ball when we accepted downloads instead of physical boxes

But then again downloads have been a godsend for those of us in europe who get 20% tax added to everythin we buy and sometime import duty and a collection fee.

Of course the powers-that-be have tried to block that avenue by creating 20% tax on digital delivery but thankfully there are few nice vendors state-side who turn a blind eye to that (mentioning no names to avoid getting anyone in trouble, but they know who they are).

The other day I bought a DVD from a vendor in the US for $20. $12 shipping. Then it arrived in the UK, went through customs and had £5 (=$7) VAT/tax added and then £8 (=$11) post office fee for collecting the tax off me! 20 bucks became 50 bucks.

[martinjuenke]

I am disappointed in Steinberg. If there were laws in place that required a limitation on their sale, then I can see limiting it. In fact I prefer they not break laws. Otherwise I view it as pure discrimination. Being a fan of Steinberg products makes it especially hard because you never want to see a company with such great tools act like a tool.

MOOG did a BF sale only in the US... so I and millions of Asians and Europeans and and and were discriminated!? Interesting idea!

[Fleer]

Good points, gentlemen

[DrMEM]

I think we (old) plugin buyers dropped the ball when we accepted downloads instead of physical boxes and I believe subscriptions are the next logical step.
So, no physical boxes, no physical ownership.
But I’ll say it again. As my next car will not be electric because I love the sound of a “real” engine, my next plugin will be purchased, not subscribed to.
Then why did I ever accept non-physical (downloaded) delivery in the first place?
Convenience, for sure.
I’m a slut.

One potential problem down the line with subscription is if the developer stop offering the sub (either voluntarily or going out of business/being bought out etc) - not sure what happens at that point.

It's no different for any "owned" plugin that you have to activate online. If they go under you think you'll be able to install it on a new machine?