Maybe I'm just blind......

[djsubject]

I cant not read this post & i cant not get offended by some of the comments made by IIRs (sorry)

I'm sorry too Chris, but I honestly belive that the more offence I cause by saying it, the more it needs to be said.

I would just like to officially object to the term "militant atheist" that has been attached to me: I deplore violence in all situations other than last-resort self-defence, so I don't think the word "militant" covers my position well, and "atheist" implies a mind less open than I try to keep mine..

I'm back

I'm not offended by your thoughts on god!! just your thoughts on me that you have stated in this thread


you speak like i am a fool that NEEDS to follow someone or something,

the truth is i am scared, if i die & its over i am lucky, i dont want to suffer forever becouse i could not find the truth!

i see coruption in the books of god! & find it hard to beleave if i dont commit to one of them i will burn regardless how i live my life, & even harder to beleave that if i do commit but live live a selfish c**t i will be fine because i commeted to that faith


i find it harder to beleave we evolved from some magic gas that just happend to ignite & form the universe or that we evolved from apes, (i mean apes are still here what happend to them & if thay are still here why is neanderfall man not?)

if someone could prove to me there was no god i wouldent chainge a thing about how i live (except i probly wouldent sacrafice directly for god like i am trying to do this month with my fast)

i have said in this thread before i dont think you are atheist even though you have claimed to be yourselfe, i class you as egnostic, but it dose seem there are serten things it seems you have closed your mind to!

when i was 8 a severly cripled 4 year old boy came to my house (my addopted farther was a healer) me & my brother thought he was a freek (my dad that is not the boy ) after 3 visits he could use his fingers to play different keys on the keyboard i had at the time & he took 8 steps across a long room by him self to his mother, this boy was fully cripled on the first visit & by the 3'rd & last visit he was not at all,

this i witnessed! my dad allways told me it wasent him that did the healing he was just a channel to a higher power, he was not into god as told in the books but knew there was somthing,

there are so meny things in life that cant be explained but some will still say if there is a god we are allready smarter than him (but the only thing we seem to be doing is making shure that there is nothing left for the next genarations)

ok i'm gona stop now coz thease long posts dont help my post count

but please understand i am not blind! i follow no man or his writings! & i'm far from brain washed

i'm just over contious


Subz

[djsubject]

I cant not read this post & i cant not get offended by some of the comments made by IIRs (sorry)


I'm out of this mad house!


happy music macking to you all


Chris

I think you might take life (and this topic) a bit to serious.

I think it's fascinating to watch how people observe life and how they inturpite it.

Relax dude, we're all in this for life. Noone gets out of it alive. Have fun while you're still breathing.
God or no god, noones gonna take my humour away, bad humour or good humour.

maby not life but i think i did take this topic to serious!


thanx for the reality check

[rpc9943]

I don't need christ, and neither do you if you would but realise it: we all just need to nurture that part of us which feels compassion for the suffering of others.

Hey I never ever said you needed Christ, are you hearing voices or reading words I didnt type? I just said all this shit you just said is completely parallel with the words of Christ, BITCH.

Fcuk, man!

RONC

[chico.co.uk]

Seeing as you insist on making ridiculous statements you're incapable of substantiating

If you think for yourself you realise how evil ALL the major religions are..

Walk us through how you came to the realisation that Buddhism is evil?

[headquest]

IIRs and Subz...

Thank you both for sharing your stories... both of which made me a little bit emotional.

IIRs - I know you made yourself "vulnerable" sharing your story... but by doing so you have put all your other comments into a perspective that makes sense. As you know from my posts in this thread, I've known some pain too.

My only religion is simply trying to find a measure peace/resolve within, learning to move on from past hurts, and attempting to both understand and accept others without judgement.

That's the only place I'm coming from, and I hope that helps.

[pHz]

hmm sounds like parallel to the words of Christ, maybe you should read up on his teachings and figure out oh thats where my part of this mindset originated
RonC

BOXES

slainte rob

[Rock]

If you think for yourself you realise how evil ALL the major religions are..

Ummm... just because someone doesn't agree with your conclusions doesn't mean they aren't thinking for themselves.

It does if the only argument they can produce is "because thats what god / the bible / the koran says"

The thing that you're leaving out is that those that hold those positions (even the ones I disagree with... ie Koran) had to reason through adopting their respective positions. How much effort and thought goes into that stage of reasoning is different for each person. The fact that a Muslim won't eat pork based on the Koran's teachings doesn't give any indication how long he/she considered his/her decision to accept the Koran as authoritative. Perhaps he/she became a Muslim simply because his/her father and mother were Muslims, but OTOH he/she could have become a Muslim after having wrestled with the issues for years in deep contemplation.

[djsubject]

it dose tell you not to eat pork in the bible aswell! but that book was taken out the bible

the book of the makerbees (sorry for my realy shitty spelling)

its also ilegal to own a bible that predates the 16'th centry

Subz

[Lunch Money]

True, Rock, but I would argue that the majority of a religion's population comes from their upbringing. Most people in the world that belong to a particular religion belong to that religion because it is part of their upbringing and culture. In Mexico, it's unheard of to be anything BUT Catholic, and the few Protestants I met there are reviled and treated like they're some sort of wacky cult. It sounds funny, but it's true.

Meanwhile, you drive down the street and every time your car passes a church, the people in the car with you make the sign of the cross! It's truly bizarre, I'm telling you.

I think it's very rare that the world's population comes to a religion from deep thought and concentration. Of course, we DO hear about those people, and I suspect that we're more likely to encounter them in a place like KvR since it's a meeting place for creative and progressive (they'd have to be, to be on an internet forum sharing their technologically-assisted music creations with internationals!) people. But if you walk into a quiet farming town in rural Italy, you can bet that the majority are Catholic because of their culture.

One of my greatest friends is now a dedicated agnostic. This is a guy who was a youth group leader for most of his youth and into his early adulthood, and might have become a minister. Even AFTER being raised very strongly in the religion, he still chose agnosticism after what I interpret as being an "epiphanic" experience.

I and other agnostics or athiests have had similar "epiphanies", and who is to say that we haven't also found God or an understanding of the universe? It seems to me that headquest is right, though-- for many years and even now (it's a hard habit to break) I try to share my view of the universe's spirituality because I hope that other people have similar epiphanies and realize that they don't need a church to find their soul or to discover "goodness." So I can't speak for IIRs, but I'm really NOT as open-minded as I would like to be sometimes because it pains me to see people relying on an outside source for spiritual satisfaction and a belief in a higher order of the universe, rather than just looking inside themselves. You are your own church, your own prophet, and your own miracle.

Subz-- you mentioned believing in God as being a better route than believing in some "magical gas". Is it REALLY that much more plausible that some entity sculpted us from matter? That he did a flip-flop of personality from the Old Testament into either the Koran or the New Testament? I dunno, it seems MORE likely to me that an unquantifiable and undefineable BASIC spirituality of the universe started off a chain of events that ended up with us right here talking on the net.

Ahh... religious threads. Always fun, but always so hotly debated.

[IIRs]

you speak like i am a fool that NEEDS to follow someone or something,

I know you're not a fool, but I think understand you better now.

I would of course say that your adopted father's healing powers came from within him, even if he didn't realise that himself, and that, if you did not learn how to love from your biological family, perhaps you learnt it from him..?

the truth is i am scared, if i die & its over i am lucky, i dont want to suffer forever becouse i could not find the truth!

I refuse to believe that a god of compassion and love would condemn a soul simply for being wrong about his existence..

[IIRs]

Seeing as you insist on making ridiculous statements you're incapable of substantiating

If you think for yourself you realise how evil ALL the major religions are..

Walk us through how you came to the realisation that Buddhism is evil?

I will admit freely that I know f**k-all about Buddhism, but afaik it does not involve a single all-powerful god, which is the subject of my "controversial" sig.

[Mr. Tingle]

Has anyone here ever heard of the tetragrammaton?

I thought it might be of some interest in this kind of debate.

[braj]

IIRS, you should check out Buddhism, a non-religion but a system that teaches it's followers to develop compassion and dispell their illusions to see the truth. They seek Nirvana, or 'no anxiety'. We'll all be 'saved' when we become compassionate.

I believe there's a different belief system for everyone. Some that people choose are totally full of crap, some are like useful myths, and some are pointing to the truth. None in my opinion are anywhere near perfect.

Some groups have deified Buddha and turned it into a religion. In the same way I believe people deified Christ, I truly think if Christians would ignore everything else in the bible except what can be directly attributed to Jesus the world would be a better place. What Jesus said generally was pretty rightous. Christians could not participate in wars because of something the old testament says, they would be bound by 'do unto others'. And people wouldn't rely on a dream someone had to lay out thier plan for the end times as in Revalations. Which affects all of us, even us 'heathens'. f**k you if you want to make the end of the world come for Jesus. Seriously, f**k you. This is my planet too.

[djsubject]

Seeing as you insist on making ridiculous statements you're incapable of substantiating

If you think for yourself you realise how evil ALL the major religions are..

Walk us through how you came to the realisation that Buddhism is evil?

I will admit freely that I know fcuk-all about Buddhism, but afaik it does not involve a single all-powerful god, which is the subject of my "controversial" sig.

got to give him that one!

budda was a man

& he took the good from all the books at the time (witch was more than we have now) & made Buddhism!

a beuatfull releigen that i studdyed when i was 16 & homeless in centrell london (i even chanted with the girl from allo allo that says "listen verry cearfully, i will say this only once") that chant "nam yo ho reng gay quo" (sorry again for shitty spelling) it means somthing like "i devote myselfe to the wonderfull truth" & teaches us that in this life we are our own god

plus allot more

[IIRs]

IIRS, you should check out Buddhism, a non-religion but a system that teaches it's followers to develop compassion and dispell their illusions to see the truth. They seek Nirvana, or 'no anxiety'. We'll all be 'saved' when we become compassionate.

That sounds pretty spot-on to be honest..

Some groups have deified Buddha and turned it into a religion.

.. but that bit worries me