Reason 3 is simply awesome.

[AD80]

It is voodoo.

Heres a quote from the Malstrom description.

"The basis of a Graintable is a sampled sound, which has been pre-processed using an extremely academic and complex method. A whole leaflet would be needed just to describe this."

I agree with them in not letting people make their own samples. I dont know anybody who would be willing to read AN ENTIRE LEAFLET.

Besides these are the people who made Recycle, couldnt they just make a little app that helped you make Malstrom sounds? I guess not. Expandability isnt really a priority.

[DHR53]

He's (Magnus) working on a new synth which he mentioned would be of particular interest to Mac users... Maybe a Maelstrom for VST AU??? Being a big fan of Microtonic, I'm pretty psyched about that... Maelstrom was my favorite in Reason...

[BONES]

your projecting your demands and needs upon other again..

No I'm not, I'm givng my perspective, just as you and everyone else gives their's. I suppose I should be flattered that a lot of you seem to give my comments greater weight than they deserve but in reality it pisses me off that you can say what you like but you expect me to somehow moderate my opinions to fit in with your view.
[/quote]this has been mentioned many many times before.. not every tool needs to be able to do everything. That's just such a ridiculous notion.[/quote]
But one that has no expansion mechanism should, don't you think? What if you wanted to use something like a Phase Modulation style synth to nail a particular sound? You can't, so you have to have a propepr host that supports ReWire and then you need to hope that its all going to work properly. Its far more effort that it should be for something which, as Teksonik pointed out, is more expensive than several other hugely capable host applications.

The props have obviously long decided NOT to join the normal sequencing crowd and have instead slowly (especially slowly ) developed Reason towards an instrument, which happens to have sequencing capabilities as well. It was first branded as a virtual studio but it's their damn right to change that if they want.. and they have.

As I said yesterday, I'm pretty sure they realised that they were never going to be able to compete as a virtual studio so its a pretty cynical move on their part.

As mentioned before, no one is going to give Virsyn shit because Tera is a synth and not a host

That's because it can be plonked into a full-featured host to make up for its deficiencies with almost zero effort.

or no one is going to complain that Cubase doesn't have advanced video editing features.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I have seen idiots complaining about that.

Why does Reason have to be a full-featured host? If you want one of those use Cubase, Logic, FL, Orion, etc.. no one is forcing anyone to do anything.

Precisely, yet you seem to feel that we should say nice things about Reason even though it falls so far short of our expectations, given its price and the style of application it is. Yesterday I compared it to the KORG Legacy Collection and I think this is possibly a much fairer comparison and yet I still find the Legay Collection more appealing, simply because I don't have to use it as a stand-alone if I don't want to. A more realistic comparison might be to something like SimSynth 2, in which case Reason might just be slightly ahead. Even FL can be loaded as a VSTi.

If you want an extremely versatile, great sounding modular instrument with sequencing capabilities, look at Reason. If not, well don't be a f**king idiot and don't use it

You left-out "stand-alone" and I think you'll find that is where most people are most disappointed.

It's not all about features & cost - it's about what works for you & being mature enough to realise that the world doesn't revolve around you, your needs, likes & dislikes & that different people have different capabilities, strengths, weaknesses & working practices & that they find their creativity blossoms using different tools.

Why would you suppose from what has been written here that anyone thinks you shouldn't use Reason if it works for you? People express their own opinions and through that process we can all learn about different applications that we may not have the time to invest in for ourselves. You shouldn't be reading any of this as "Don't use Reason, use this" but as "I don't use Reason, I use this and this is why I chose this path". Whenever someone writes a reply, its just their opinion, no more or less valid than any other. We shouldn't have to start every sentence with "IMHO", it should be obvious.

less?!?!?!? that's a statement from someone who has never used Reason the way it should be used. If you don't know Reason 3 then for god's sake, shut the f**k up and go annoy some kids in the street or something

Why would you have to use Reason to know that it doesn't have any relevance to your own workflow? That makes no sense. I can look at the features it has, knowing that I can't load a plug-in to fill any of the huge, gaping holes, and know straight away that it cannot possibly be of any use to me whatsoever. It is sufficently flawed that I don't need to hear a demo tune or download the demo and try it for myself. Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend?

Or monkey, for that matter.
I don't like Orion, but I don't think (all) orion users are monkeys.

Hmmm... monkeys!

taking 'host' completely out of context by dragging in an other Prop software that's linked using REWIRE!!
I guess that kind of sums up the amazing depth and intellect of the anti-Reason argument so far

Except that ReWire is about as close to a hosting environmeent as a hardware mixer. That and the fact that ReWire is my biggest problem with Reason so it actually bolsters my case.

If it HAD the features that people wanted, then it would SELL more, but since it DOESN'T, then it WON'T. Some people will use it, but most won't. Sorry to point out the obvious.

You still don't get it, do you? You stated yourself that you're a relative newbie and you would definitely be in the vast majority on that score. So why would I want to use an application that, via its huge customer-base, is clearly catering for newbies? Why wouldn't I prefer to use an application created by an experienced musician, squarely aimed at the professional recordng market? That Rich might not reach that market is in no way indiciative of the quality or integrity of his vision so much as a simple of fact of life - that its all but impossible to be noticed at that end of town, where huge brand-names have been dominant for decades. Why do you continue to confuse popular with good. Wasn't the Madonna analogy clear enough for you? I'll try another. McDonald's sells 10 times more burgers than any other burger company, does it therefore follow that their burgers are superior to everyone else's? Maybe it just means they have a far greater reach and slicker marketing. I certainly wouldn't try to break into that market on the strength of having burgers as good as their's, its just not what makes them popular.

Personally, I think if you'd switch to Reason, the quality of your music would go up...way up.

Based on what? How would I get three verses and two choruses of vocals, each with several overdubs, into Reason? Via a f**king sampler? What century are you living in?

You could make your type of music with reason 2.0 and be just fine.

As long as I didn't need a synth with a good filter or any level of convenience whatsoever and I didn't mind spending three times more on a flawed application than I have on music software to date.

I'd say making an investment in quality tools is better than piecing together a bunch of subpar things you make yourself.

Ok, let's talk about quality tools. How many sample formats are supported within Reason? How good does its 3 oscillator wavetable synth sound? Or its wave-morphing sampler? How wgood do you think that Subtraktor would sound next to WaspXT? I can tell you, no softsynth can stack up against WaspXT's filter, regardless of price. Then there's effects, how good is the Impulse Response Processor in Reason? Good sound? Low CPU, even at very low latency? How about delays, anything modelled on the top-of-the-line Lexicon and virtaully indistinguishable from it? Of course, with the IRP that's now less relevant as I have a range of impulses from several top-end effects units. What's the side-chaining like in Reason? Beat-slicing? Transient shaper? You see, my synths make up only around 30% of the sound of our stuff, the rest is almost exclusively native ORION. But ORION doesn't quite cover all my needs so I do use a few plugins, wherever they are appropriate. How about you? I suppose you just have to work and work and work at it to overcome those deficiencies? Nice if you don't have a job or a life but my time is far too limited for that kind of krap.

If you enjoy making them, that's great! I hope you have fun. But they just don't sound that great. You're better off picking up a second hand copy of R2.0 and take your stuff to the next level.

You're right, there are serious limitations in SE's oscillators and, to a lesser extent, its filters and I doubt that I could rely on them solely. That's not why I make them, I make them because they are targeted at doing a certain thing and do it well, with a tidy, useful interface and all the features I need and none of the ones that generally just get in the way. You see, when you know what you're doing, its not so hard to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear when you have tools that are great to work with. Sound quality has always been secondary to my needs, function is primary. Reason falls so far short of my functionality needs its just not funny.

However groundbreaking you feel it originally was, it certainly doesn't stand out from the crowd anymore.

Sorry? I don't where you might have got that impression from. Of course ORION is not groundbreaking, its just right. It has all the advantages of Reason's closed environment plus a whole raft of abilities that Reason totally lacks.

I like a small GUI.

So do I, but only because it allows me to see more things at one time, which Reason's rack does not.

I can't understand why the rack takes such a central part in the visual feast that is Reason ... I rarely worry about synth GUI's unless I am tweaking them - beyond that please don't tell me people like to have them on the screen simply for the aesthetic appeal!

Got me in one. But I think people's problem with the rack is scrolling to find that GUI when you do want to tweak it, rather than being able to see them all at once.

ok, I got it, reason is not a sequencer, it is only a Synth. Man, Props can really confuse people.

And yet you can make the sequencer take up the whole screen but not the instrument rack? Strange or what?

you should try reason and maybe then you'll have a clue of what it does. Attacking and cussing propellerheads for nuthin is just immature...and u're what? 40? wow.

47. Why the hell do I have to use something in order to see its flaws. Do I have to drive a Kia Rio for a week to know that its not going to perform anywhere near as well as my car I can I just look at the spec's and figure that out for myself? Do I have to try on a pair of pants to know that they won't fit or can I just look at the label and see that they are the wrong size?

I respect the developer that made it.

How can you respect someone you don't know? Shows me how little value your respect has.

I have Reason 2.5 and i'll upgrade to 3 very soon. The combinator is the bomb. Some person said that reason 3 should have like a feature where you have many devices and you just select a magic command that combines them all. FRom what i gather, reason 3 already has that. go to the props website for more on what reason can do.

I already know what it can't do and that outwieghs any number of things that it can.

And for god's sake dont argue on why it cant host VSTs. the props are not fools. By having a closed system, it gives reason more stability. I remember seeing reason play a song in the midst of a computer lockup. I dont think any other program could do that. Simple, its FAR more stable than anything i've come across. It makes sense to have reason as a closed system.

Only if stability is an issue, and its not. My host never, ever, ever crashes. Ever. And it wouldn't ever crash on anyone else if they didn't use plugins, which is more viable in ORION as it is in Reason. It is more stable than any software I use professionally. How can you see stability as being more important than the ability to host thousands upon thousands of 3rd party products which would extend Reason's ability immeasurably? It just doesn't make sense to me in the slightest.

[soulkraka]

well he DID sniff Reason v1 one day some years ago..
that almost makes him a expert, doesn't it?

that cracks me up man...

the bottom line is that all you Reason haters can form a nice, neat line and blow me. And you Bones, since you hate Reason and breakbeats, you can blow me and do the dishes afterwards.

[diverdee]

People express their own opinions and through that process we can all learn about different applications that we may not have the time to invest in for ourselves. ... Whenever someone writes a reply, its just their opinion, no more or less valid than any other. etc. etc.

OOoooh I love it when you talk all rationally & grown up BONES - makes me feel all dirty & wobbly inside
Good points all.

[John Vulich]

[John Vulich]

Ooops!

[BONES]

That's gotta hurt!

[Maniah]

That's gotta hurt!

Not as much as using Reason exclusively.











That should garner up another 15 pages of rubbish.

[BONES]

Yeah, pretty much. I can't wait for this render to finish.

[John Vulich]

That's gotta hurt!

It's actually supposed to be a cure for headaches... oddly enough!

Cure May Be Worse Than The Headache

[Teksonik]

I guess we just can't understand why you would pay more for Reason and get less musical creation power..

less?!?!?!? that's a statement from someone who has never used Reason the way it should be used. If you don't know Reason 3 then for god's sake, shut the f**k up and go annoy some kids in the street or something

Now there's an intelligent response. Reduced to anger because you can't give a logical argument why your closed Reason system gives you more creative power than an open ended vst/dxi host. Take a look at the drop down menu for the Instruments and Effects lists here at KVR. Look at the hundreds of instruments and effects you can't use in Reason. You are handcuffed. Don't jump to conclusions that I haven't tried Reason. I have and that's why I didn't buy it. Like I said it's your money, more power to ya if you like Reason but one of the purposes of KVR is for the discussion of software. Someone started a thread "Reason is Awesome" and I disagree. Deal with it, the only one who can tell me to STFU are the Mods.

[Warmonger]

How come Logic and Cubase can have a relatively peaceful apprecation thread, but Reason can't?

[biomechanoid]

your projecting your demands and needs upon other again..

No I'm not, I'm givng my perspective, just as you and everyone else gives their's. I suppose I should be flattered that a lot of you seem to give my comments greater weight than they deserve but in reality it pisses me off that you can say what you like but you expect me to somehow moderate my opinions to fit in with your view.

That is absolutely priceless.

[vurt]

That's gotta hurt!

It's actually supposed to be a cure for headaches... oddly enough!

Cure May Be Worse Than The Headache

you got one for toothache?