Polyphonic Guitar to MIDI VST/AU "MIDI Guitar"- BETA TEST

[memyselfandus]

Yes. Epic post Rob! thank you

[AdmiralQuality]

The other discussion is how to implement micro tunings. Pitch bend wont work for simulating micro tunings as it affect all notes.

All notes on a single channel. The MIDI spec itself suggests MIDI guitar be spread across 6 channels in MONO mode. (The implementation of MONO mode by the instrument doesn't really matter, so long as there's only a monophonic performance on that channel. But technically we do this to inform the synth that the incoming notes are intended to be interpreted monophonically, ie. by a single voice.)

http://www.midi.org/aboutmidi/tut_midimusicsynth.php

When Poly mode is selected, incoming Note On messages are played polyphonically. This means that when multiple Note On messages are received, each note is assigned its own voice (subject to the number of voices available in the synthesizer). The result is that multiple notes are played at the same time. When Mono mode is selected, a single voice is assigned per MIDI Channel. This means that only one note can be played on a given Channel at a given time.

Most hardware guitar converters allow you to switch between POLY and MONO modes, with pitch bend only working in MONO mode which also implies giving each string its own separate MIDI channel. I'd suggest to JamOrigin that they stick with that paradigm. (Once they get to it, I certainly understand wanting to do the easier case of POLY mode first.)

[JamOrigin]

Admiral, thanks - advice taken.

[CapnLockheed]

That's why I'd advise them to avoid getting into this. Users who want it can already do it, and the controller doesn't need to know.

I disagree. First off, I think it would be a useful addition. Secondly your second statement presupposes that users that wish to have this functionality must A) own third party software with this capability AND B) be willing to further complicate things by instantiating said program in the chain....maybe some of us would like the controller to know.

[AdmiralQuality]

That's why I'd advise them to avoid getting into this. Users who want it can already do it, and the controller doesn't need to know.

I disagree. First off, I think it would be a useful addition. Secondly your second statement presupposes that users that wish to have this functionality must A) own third party software with this capability AND B) be willing to further complicate things by instantiating said program in the chain....maybe some of us would like the controller to know.

Any host should be able to dump the MIDI tuning information into any plug-in that can understand it (which won't be many). But to provide some kind of editor for this, for the extremely rare case of plug-ins that can understand it? I don't want to pay for that. I'd rather they spend their development time (and money) on features that everyone can use, like better tracking, lower latency, and string extraction.

And again, the controller doesn't EVER know. It doesn't care. It sends 128 possible MIDI notes, that's all it knows. What pitch each particular note actually maps to is completely arbitrary. Does your keyboard controller know if your synth is set to some wacky microtuning? No. MIDI is a stateless, one-way interface. Controllers don't need to know anything about the destination instrument. (Hence the "panic" button.)

[CapnLockheed]

Controllers don't need to know anything about the destination instrument.

I guess Novation wasted an awful lot of time and money developing automapping then.

[AdmiralQuality]

Controllers don't need to know anything about the destination instrument.

I guess Novation wasted an awful lot of time and money developing automapping then.

You just made my point for me. Automap is software. Your hardware controller doesn't know its being run through it. Case in point. (And does Automap affect the keyboard or is it just for SWITCHES, KNOBS AND SLIDERS? MIDI-Guitar is just a NOTE interface, not a bunch of switches and continuous controllers.)

Now stop being difficult.

[JamOrigin]

Admiral, we have asked specifically for ideas and hear about peoples needs. You have made some good points, but please let people express their own needs. We want this to be an open discussion.

CapnLockheed and memyselfandus have expressed interest in microtunings and that it can make their work a little bit easier, or even create excitement.

Featuring .tun files and sending out notes with pitch bends would only be a couple of days to implement, and it will work with any synth that can listen on all channels. As i've said it's comming in an update sometime, along other MIDI features (like MIDI learn, split "keyboard", MIDI pedals, alternative tunings), but we focus on core features first.

[AdmiralQuality]

Admiral, we have asked specifically for ideas and hear about peoples needs. You have made some good points, but please let people express their own needs. We want this to be an open discussion.

I'm not telling anyone not to request a feature, only that some "features" are impossible and/or completely unnecessary. Not everyone here is a qualified product designer, and a few seem to be confused on some points about how MIDI actually works. All I've done is my best to explain exactly where their understanding is breaking down. I thought you would appreciate that.

[JamOrigin]

I very much appreciate your thoughts, and clearing up things. Please continue with that.

[AdmiralQuality]

K. Again, not trying to say any (possible) idea is worthless, only to toss in a vote for priority.

I'm still planning a big long post for you guys but am sick with a bad head cold today and don't want to put the headphones on my already aching head. Soon though!

[CapnLockheed]

not trying to say any (possible) idea is worthless

Umn...I believe you just did:

and/or completely unnecessary

...in your opinion.

only to toss in a vote for priority.

And, of course, there's nothing wrong with that.
We all have our own priorities and needs.

Not everyone here is a qualified product designer

And not everyone here is primarily a MidiGuitar player either.
Yes, perhaps some of us are not Wil E. Coyote super genius but
there is no need for the condescending attitude. In general, most
guitarists don't have as deep an understanding of midi and programming
as most plugin developers. However, most of us here have played
various types of synth guitars for decades and know what we need
and want. Furthermore, there has been very little development in this
area over the many years it has been going on. For those of us that
use midi guitar as a primary instrument ANY new developments are
very exciting and personally I like to think outside the box.
I've had a large hand in the development of MANY bits of guitar
related software and MANY of my ideas have been implemented by
their developers. Granted my lack of understanding of some areas
of programming and technology have resulted in suggestions that
were either "impossible and/or completely unnecessary". BUT shouldn't
that call be left up to the DEVELOPER??

I'll "stop being difficult" now ok, boss?

[CapnLockheed]

I've done some more testing.....I've tried using a Vox Tonelab hardware ampsim in front of the standalone...by placing various flavors of compression and distortion in front of it I seem to be able to favorably affect MIDIGuitar's tracking...it seems like the response is faster and less ghost notes. It's too bad there is no way to insert these types of effects between the hex pup and converter in Roland systems. This type of signal attenuation might help there too. I have also attempted to try the same thing with plugins in Bidule but the MIDIGuitar plugin is crashing it.

Cheers...CL

[nix808]

Hey man,
I have had huge improvements by using a biquad
filter in my own software.
maybe try .2 cut and .05 res .
My system and MIDIguitar use different methods,
but maybe worth a shot.
The more sine-like the signal is the more effective in
my experience.
Cheers
an EQ could be used to make a similar freq curve

[CapnLockheed]

Hey man,
I have had huge improvements by using a biquad
filter in my own software.
maybe try .2 cut and .05 res .
My system and MIDIguitar use different methods,
but maybe worth a shot.
The more sine-like the signal is the more effective in
my experience.
Cheers
an EQ could be used to make a similar freq curve

Excellent! Great suggestions!!