A new competitor to Uhe Diva has arived!!!

[chilly7]

Didn't read all posts but if Monomark is a reaktor instrument/ensemble, you'd be lucky to be able to play more than 4 notes simultaneously in 96khz.

Why?

[chilly7]

I'm not a linguist, but I suspect that "circuit modeling of audio circuitry" is a subclass of digital signal processing.

Oh right, absolutely. From an industry category standpoint, or a college, circuit-modeling is probably to be found in a "DSP" course. But, in the spirit of what I'm trying to understand, one *approach* simulates, part-for-part, the behavior of voltages and current in a circuit-block, the other *approach* is more black-box and only concerned with the result. At the end of the day, it's all DSP. I get that.

I just do what I think works best and I don't care what it's called as long as it does what's desired.

Totally agree. As long as all or most of the subtleties of the non-linearities are being captured, who cares how it got there.

The result speaks for itself.

Indeed they do.

All that said, I guess what I may be getting at is that we are still, as of 2013, at a place where there is the potential for improvement to these analog simulations -- great as they do sound today.

To quote from that Sound On Sound article, Wave Arts' Bill Gardner said:

"...the expense grows as the cube of the number of circuit nodes. For example, our Tube Saturator plug-in has six circuit nodes in the non-linear portion, containing two 12AX7 pre-amp stages. This [requires] about 33 percent of a 2.8GHz P4, processing mono 44.1kHz samples; doubling the size of the circuit requires eight times the CPU. A complete tube amp, like a Fender Champ with 24 circuit nodes, would require 64 times the CPU — or about 20 CPU cores! However, CPU power will continue to increase. In the not-so-distant future we'll be able to model any vintage analogue gear by simply entering its circuit schematic and running it in real time. And, in many ways, these simulations will be better than the original circuit: exact component values, perfectly matched components, no noise..."

Right now, it seems that DSP tweaking is about on par with circuit modelling after that circuit model is optimized and dumbed-down to fit into today's CPUs.

One can imagine a not-too-distant future where it's "cheaper" to just dial in the schematics -- no compromises. All those "parasitic effects" of electrical characteristics get solved for free. It just executes those components as if it were real. If the output doesn't match it's not the circuit that's wrong, it's the simulation of it. Once perfected, it would even account for aged components, different brands, damage, etc.

It could make black-box DSP development a lost art. Maybe not, and not for a looooong while.

I'm not unhappy with the current line-up of VA synths (Diva being one of my favorite), but at the same time when I see posts like "oh great, another VA synth emulation" I have to think that these are folks that don't own actual, analog hardware -- cuz there is still room for improvement. Nothing that keeps us from making music, but let's just say that we should all be potential customers of new products, cuz they keep getting better.

Good post. Totaly agree!!!

[chilly7]

@chilly7

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=376397

Lol

[chilly7]

Why werent folk all over it, bitching, when Sugar Bytes Cyclops came out?

Probably because nobody noticed that one.

Talking of monophonic, as already said, they got to have a reason for it.
...
I guess it is quite a CPU hog, even being monophonic.

Ah ok, so the "reason" is, that it's a CPU hog?
Even then it makes no sense, since there will be faster CPUs in the future.

Also if Reaktor isn't multithreadable it would be wiser to fix that, instead of making a synth monophonic because of it.

I am not a DSP engeniur but i think in order to make a program multi core capable they need to rewrire alot of code and it is not a very esy task. I am pretty shure that the next Reaktor version will be multy core capable but the onnly quetion is when. I afreaid that we might need to wait another year for a new Komplate ton see a new Reaktor...

[pdxindy]

I'm not unhappy with the current line-up of VA synths (Diva being one of my favorite), but at the same time when I see posts like "oh great, another VA synth emulation" I have to think that these are folks that don't own actual, analog hardware -- cuz there is still room for improvement. Nothing that keeps us from making music, but let's just say that we should all be potential customers of new products, cuz they keep getting better.

Sometimes it's the people with analog gear who say that cause they already got that covered...

Myself, I enjoy seeing the VA emulations get better and better, even if I am not particularly interested in a specific manifestation. I'm not that excited about the Minimoog itself, so another emulation, even a superb one, may be of geek interest, but not musical interest. If I were to buy some analog synth(s), the Minimoog would not even be on the list for consideration. It's the modular world that interests me. So Bazille, with it's freely wired modules and audio rate modulations is what does it for me.

[jalcide]

I'm not unhappy with the current line-up of VA synths (Diva being one of my favorite), but at the same time when I see posts like "oh great, another VA synth emulation" I have to think that these are folks that don't own actual, analog hardware -- cuz there is still room for improvement. Nothing that keeps us from making music, but let's just say that we should all be potential customers of new products, cuz they keep getting better.

Sometimes it's the people with analog gear who say that cause they already got that covered...

Myself, I enjoy seeing the VA emulations get better and better, even if I am not particularly interested in a specific manifestation. I'm not that excited about the Minimoog itself, so another emulation, even a superb one, may be of geek interest, but not musical interest. If I were to buy some analog synth(s), the Minimoog would not even be on the list for consideration. It's the modular world that interests me. So Bazille, with it's freely wired modules and audio rate modulations is what does it for me.

Yes. "Me too" on all those points. Yeah, Bazille is freaky good.

The one non-modular synth I wouldn't mind seeing an emulation of, is the new Prophet 12.

[Gonga]

Sorry I didn't read through the hundreds of posts, but in case anybody wants to read mine, Monark looks great, it'll be good for people who don't already own DIVA.

I feel DIVA is deeper and does everything I desire of her. And DIVA is handcrafted by the best company in the world. I feel safe in my bed at night that all my U-He plugs will just always work, they won't likely be abandoned to the virtual dust bin anytime in the foreseeable future (very unlike the plugs of certain other companies), and I plan to just delve deeper and deeper

[Phase47]

I feel safe in my bed at night that all my U-He plugs will just always work, they won't likely be abandoned to the virtual dust bin anytime in the foreseeable future (very unlike the plugs of certain other companies)

Just want to reiterate this notion, having some difficulties with plugs only a few years old that desperately need bug fixes, 64bit support, or fail to evolve (or even worse, devolve.)

So glad the U-he's get it right every time. (No pressure, mates!)

[damoog]

totally love DIVA,its just the best synth ive ever used but im at least a little interested in monark,i like all NI's synths to be honest and this will definetly get a demo from me

i do find their 'one synth to rule them all' marketing hit a little hard to swallow though especially when its monophonic

[chilly7]

totally love DIVA,its just the best synth ive ever used but im at least a little interested in monark,i like all NI's synths to be honest and this will definetly get a demo from me

i do find their 'one synth to rule them all' marketing hit a little hard to swallow though especially when its monophonic

Do not forget to post it on Uhe company forum, so if Monark is better then Diva it means Uhe has some job to do and if it is not better, still Uhe has some job to do

[experimental.crow]

Didn't read all posts but if Monomark is a reaktor instrument/ensemble, you'd be lucky to be able to play more than 4 notes simultaneously in 96khz.

y ?

ftfy ...

[tangerine]

impOSCar 2 is really GOOOOOOOOOD!

[Eclipse.Sound]

https://soundcloud.com/nativeinstrument ... nky-punchy

https://soundcloud.com/nativeinstrument ... overloaded

https://soundcloud.com/nativeinstrument ... slow-glide

I will pass on this

[djanthonyw]

I will pass on this

Same here. Sounds digital.

[David Else]

Without any bias, it honesty sounds bad to me. Weak digital sounding envelopes with modern flat lifeless L2 crushed sound. Makes me want to kill myself.

To be serious, is it just me, or do people think this kind of marketing is OK? I feel quite ill really. It's like, lets lie, but make it 'kind of funny' and ironic. I hate bull**** like this!

I am happy to read on all the forums people are rising up and saying "NO", this is not what you say it is, stop lying! It's just a crap sounding monophonic moog emulation!!!! STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If i was anonymous i would hack the NI website and re-direct the monarch page here:

http://www.steinberg.net/en/support/uns ... del_e.html

A polite request for people to give the money instead to charity too, with an apology for the advert and a promise they won't ever do it again.... ever!

Lets re-animate Bill Hicks and send his enraged chomping zombie to NI head quarters to speak to the head of marketing.

If they actually made a better emulation and had the same marketing I would shut up, but they had this coming. They could at least have tricked us and used a real minimoog in the demos! Maybe its an early April fools joke?