If AI replaces musicians, does the entire plugin industry die with them?

[DCrown]

I ask.again and again, how could you play in the NBA if you couldn't play basketball better than average or even not at all?!

No one will answer you because the question is irrelevant and nonsensical. Music is not remotely analogous to professional sports.

And if you had to blind test AI vs human with some well-chosen tracks that were completely new to you, you would fail. And as for hybrid music - a combination of human composition and AI - there is no way in the world you would be able to tell which included AI elements and which did not.

So I'm going to embrace AI in my music where it makes sense to do so, rather than freaking out about the New Bad Thing that we must all shun if we are to be true musicians.

Music is/was competition like sports, just now it has been decided it is not any more.
Bach had to prove his skills in competitions against other organ players, Liszt had many plublic competitions and many other real musicians. There is even some Hollywood movie where a pianist living on on a ship had competitions it was about 1930. There just are no competitions any more cuz no skills at all are required to produce music and the result is a whole lotta crap and everyone thinks he can call himself a music producer. If music is uncreative and the only criteria for good music is whether sound quality is polished, then it doesn't matter whether si or not.

What you are describing has nothing to do with AI. This "problem" has existed long before AI. You want to blame the tools but it's not the tools. It's the people who use them.

But here's the thing and this is what you don't seem to understand. Your personal opinion means NOTHING. Hell, it means less than NOTHING.

If John Doe listens to AI music (not that he would even know or care) and likes it, that's ALL that matters.

Trying to roll the musical world up in a ball that you call "good or bad" is irrelevant and pointless.

You will not change what people want to and ENJOY listening to.

Maybe once you accept that, MAYBE you might find some happiness in this world.

But maybe you have to reach my age to understand that.

I am not going to change anything, pandora's box has been opened anyway. I just am not going to listen andvenjoy any ai production. I have the right not to listen or is it an obligation just because it's a trend? Imagine I never cared about instagram or TikTok and I am still alive!
People have the right to have different views and opinions, not sure if even this will change in future, too, there are some topics where it is even become dangerous to have an opinion, so who knows, views on future is speculation anyway.

Great! Don't listen to it. Nobody cares if you don't listen to it.

So will you please SHUT UP ALREADY!!!!

This is getting old and tiresome.

When you look at some other posts I am obviously not the only one not being a fan of ai. Are you scared of wisdom? You rather act like a teen than a grown man. Maybe it would be better if YOU shut up on your faked songs you post?!
Oh I see, fake is the new reality, fake sells lol
Haven't you taken your pills?

[BBFG#]

It could also reduce everything to an automatic "public domain" making all use cases moot in copyright cases.

[mi-os]

I ask.again and again, how could you play in the NBA if you couldn't play basketball better than average or even not at all?!

No one will answer you because the question is irrelevant and nonsensical. Music is not remotely analogous to professional sports.

And if you had to blind test AI vs human with some well-chosen tracks that were completely new to you, you would fail. And as for hybrid music - a combination of human composition and AI - there is no way in the world you would be able to tell which included AI elements and which did not.

So I'm going to embrace AI in my music where it makes sense to do so, rather than freaking out about the New Bad Thing that we must all shun if we are to be true musicians.

Music is/was competition like sports, just now it has been decided it is not any more.
Bach had to prove his skills in competitions against other organ players, Liszt had many plublic competitions and many other real musicians. There is even some Hollywood movie where a pianist living on on a ship had competitions it was about 1930. There just are no competitions any more cuz no skills at all are required to produce music and the result is a whole lotta crap and everyone thinks he can call himself a music producer. If music is uncreative and the only criteria for good music is whether sound quality is polished, then it doesn't matter whether si or not.

What you are describing has nothing to do with AI. This "problem" has existed long before AI. You want to blame the tools but it's not the tools. It's the people who use them.

But here's the thing and this is what you don't seem to understand. Your personal opinion means NOTHING. Hell, it means less than NOTHING.

If John Doe listens to AI music (not that he would even know or care) and likes it, that's ALL that matters.

Trying to roll the musical world up in a ball that you call "good or bad" is irrelevant and pointless.

You will not change what people want to and ENJOY listening to.

Maybe once you accept that, MAYBE you might find some happiness in this world.

But maybe you have to reach my age to understand that.

I am not going to change anything, pandora's box has been opened anyway. I just am not going to listen andvenjoy any ai production. I have the right not to listen or is it an obligation just because it's a trend? Imagine I never cared about instagram or TikTok and I am still alive!
People have the right to have different views and opinions, not sure if even this will change in future, too, there are some topics where it is even become dangerous to have an opinion, so who knows, views on future is speculation anyway.

Great! Don't listen to it. Nobody cares if you don't listen to it.

So will you please SHUT UP ALREADY!!!!

This is getting old and tiresome.

I'm afraid it's not as easy. DCrown has a valid point. How will people be able to avoid AI output? I'm one of them. I simply don't want to consume AI generated stuff.

[bermudagold]

I ask.again and again, how could you play in the NBA if you couldn't play basketball better than average or even not at all?!

No one will answer you because the question is irrelevant and nonsensical. Music is not remotely analogous to professional sports.

sure it is...there is an established minimum competency required to be a professional separate from an amateur in both designation and compensation...

the only thing required to be professional rather than amateur is whether you make money.
sid vicious was a professional musician. his competency level was beginner, that's being generous.

you are correct in pointing out the exceptions to the generalization which always exists...punk, pop, and hip hop have no competency standards, largely because they are less about the actual music than the accoutrements and thespian activities surrounding the music...but most genres historically fit the generalization so the analogy still holds IMO

[wagtunes]

No one will answer you because the question is irrelevant and nonsensical. Music is not remotely analogous to professional sports.

And if you had to blind test AI vs human with some well-chosen tracks that were completely new to you, you would fail. And as for hybrid music - a combination of human composition and AI - there is no way in the world you would be able to tell which included AI elements and which did not.

So I'm going to embrace AI in my music where it makes sense to do so, rather than freaking out about the New Bad Thing that we must all shun if we are to be true musicians.

Music is/was competition like sports, just now it has been decided it is not any more.
Bach had to prove his skills in competitions against other organ players, Liszt had many plublic competitions and many other real musicians. There is even some Hollywood movie where a pianist living on on a ship had competitions it was about 1930. There just are no competitions any more cuz no skills at all are required to produce music and the result is a whole lotta crap and everyone thinks he can call himself a music producer. If music is uncreative and the only criteria for good music is whether sound quality is polished, then it doesn't matter whether si or not.

What you are describing has nothing to do with AI. This "problem" has existed long before AI. You want to blame the tools but it's not the tools. It's the people who use them.

But here's the thing and this is what you don't seem to understand. Your personal opinion means NOTHING. Hell, it means less than NOTHING.

If John Doe listens to AI music (not that he would even know or care) and likes it, that's ALL that matters.

Trying to roll the musical world up in a ball that you call "good or bad" is irrelevant and pointless.

You will not change what people want to and ENJOY listening to.

Maybe once you accept that, MAYBE you might find some happiness in this world.

But maybe you have to reach my age to understand that.

I am not going to change anything, pandora's box has been opened anyway. I just am not going to listen andvenjoy any ai production. I have the right not to listen or is it an obligation just because it's a trend? Imagine I never cared about instagram or TikTok and I am still alive!
People have the right to have different views and opinions, not sure if even this will change in future, too, there are some topics where it is even become dangerous to have an opinion, so who knows, views on future is speculation anyway.

Great! Don't listen to it. Nobody cares if you don't listen to it.

So will you please SHUT UP ALREADY!!!!

This is getting old and tiresome.

I'm afraid it's not as easy. DCrown has a valid point. How will people be able to avoid AI output? I'm one of them. I simply don't want to consume AI generated stuff.

Then you must not listen to any music at all because until you hit that play button, how do you know? And if after that you tell me you can immediately tell if something is AI, you're a liar. Nobody can be absolutely sure 100% of the time.

So I guess your solution is to only listen to stuff from the 70s and 80s, or whatever era you like.

[bermudagold]

I'm afraid it's not as easy. DCrown has a valid point. How will people be able to avoid AI output? I'm one of them. I simply don't want to consume AI generated stuff.

That's why I made the Sienna Rose thread...it is a suitable data point on what's happening currently...and I was curious with all the expertise at KVR...just how many could tell and how...especially in light of millions including actual recording artists NOT being able to tell
viewtopic.php?p=9187690#p9187690

[BBFG#]

Everyone knows "elevator music" the second it starts playing. It may not be immediate in our evolution, but it is inevitable.

[mi-os]

Then you must not listen to any music at all because until you hit that play button, how do you know? And if after that you tell me you can immediately tell if something is AI, you're a liar. Nobody can be absolutely sure 100% of the time.

So I guess your solution is to only listen to stuff from the 70s and 80s, or whatever era you like.

That's what i'm already doing. Same for movies and books. Not ideal, but works.

[mi-os]

I'm afraid it's not as easy. DCrown has a valid point. How will people be able to avoid AI output? I'm one of them. I simply don't want to consume AI generated stuff.

That's why I made the Sienna Rose thread...it is a suitable data point on what's happening currently...and I was curious with all the expertise at KVR...just how many could tell and how...especially in light of millions including actual recording artists NOT being able to tell
viewtopic.php?p=9187690#p9187690

The only way would be to ignore everything from now on. I don't want to waste time analyzing AI generated stuff.

[DCrown]

"So I guess your solution is to only listen to stuff from the 70s and 80s, or whatever era you like"

1700 (earliest compositions by Bach) - 2001 (Pro Tools was becoming more and more standard).

Btw
"Ricky Martin's 1999 hit "Livin' la Vida Loca" is recognized as the first Billboard Hot 100 number-one song to be entirely recorded, edited, and mixed in Pro Tools. Produced by Desmond Child, this song marked a pivotal moment in music history as it was created "in the box" (completely digitally)."

"The Beach Boys' Summer in Paradise (1992) was one of the first albums to be recorded, edited, and mixed on a beta version of Pro Tools"

[wagtunes]

Then you must not listen to any music at all because until you hit that play button, how do you know? And if after that you tell me you can immediately tell if something is AI, you're a liar. Nobody can be absolutely sure 100% of the time.

So I guess your solution is to only listen to stuff from the 70s and 80s, or whatever era you like.

That's what i'm already doing. Same for movies and books. Not ideal, but works.

Then power to you. Whatever works.

[wagtunes]

"So I guess your solution is to only listen to stuff from the 70s and 80s, or whatever era you like"

1700 (earliest compositions by Bach) - 1996 (Pro Tools was becoming more and more standard).

Btw
"Ricky Martin's 1999 hit "Livin' la Vida Loca" is recognized as the first Billboard Hot 100 number-one song to be entirely recorded, edited, and mixed in Pro Tools. Produced by Desmond Child, this song marked a pivotal moment in music history as it was created "in the box" (completely digitally)."

"The Beach Boys' Summer in Paradise (1992) was one of the first albums to be recorded, edited, and mixed on a beta version of Pro Tools"

And you're point? Do you even have one? No, you just like to ramble on and scream at the kids to "get off my lawn."

It's sad if you ask me.

[DCrown]

"So I guess your solution is to only listen to stuff from the 70s and 80s, or whatever era you like"

1700 (earliest compositions by Bach) - 1996 (Pro Tools was becoming more and more standard).

Btw
"Ricky Martin's 1999 hit "Livin' la Vida Loca" is recognized as the first Billboard Hot 100 number-one song to be entirely recorded, edited, and mixed in Pro Tools. Produced by Desmond Child, this song marked a pivotal moment in music history as it was created "in the box" (completely digitally)."

"The Beach Boys' Summer in Paradise (1992) was one of the first albums to be recorded, edited, and mixed on a beta version of Pro Tools"

And you're point? Do you even have one? No, you just like to ramble on and scream at the kids to "get off my lawn."

It's sad if you ask me.

I don't ask you. The use of Pro Tools for music marked a PIVOTAL moment in music history! (not my words, obviously a fact!).

Do you get the point now?
Pivotal! Just like AI!
Well, not sure if anyone will remember any song
released between 2010 and 2026 in 10 years, though...
Nevertheless be a proud user of AI!

And I have to correct:
1700 - 2001
The rainbow children (2001) was one of the last albums I bought and still like a lot. Only 2 or three albums more after 2001.
There's still so much music from the past to discover.
What about Abdullah Ibrahim's African Suite?
Isn't that an insider tipp?

Sorry, I haven't asked you before I post lol

[mi-os]

I'm not against AI technology per se. I just don't like generative AI. I find its output somehow disgusting. Music, graphics, texts. Furthermore, i absolutely can't stand AI driven "customer service". It's disgusting to be forced to talk to a machine. Just my opinion.

[Zeisner]

And if you had to blind test AI vs human with some well-chosen tracks that were completely new to you, you would fail.

There are people who can hear AI artifacts. Amplitude fluctuations, additional oscillations similar to artifacts generated by pitch shifters, wobbly timbres, smeared transients (similar to using a unstable auto-filter), that kind of stuff. I'm sure the vast majority of (professional) audio engineers and mastering engineers can hear them while most musicians can't (Training, hearing damage). Those artifacts are the result of using bad training data (Overprocessed and overcompressed sound). AI still sucks at synthesis. It would take an awful amount of unprocessed training data and additional computing power to push those artifacts below hearing thresholds.

Then there is the lifeless virtual performance. To correct this you would need to research a lot of additional musical and psychoacoustic variables/parameters and train AI on that. This by itself would require a lot of money but also plenty of time, with several generations of scientists working on it.

For a mixed track like composition and arrangement being done by AI and everything else by humans, things are a little different. Plenty of bland unimaginative unoriginal superficial music has been created by humans which blurs the line for this category.