Zebra3 Info

[aumordia]

Also, some people approach synths more like a child playing with toys than an adult using tools. Is the configuration of the synth supposed to be a means to an end, or the end in and of itself? The latter is, to me, an alien mentality, but I can see how it could be an important design consideration, contingent on the neoteny of the target market.

[Elektronisch]

Also, some people approach synths more like a child playing with toys than an adult using tools. Is the configuration of the synth supposed to be a means to an end, or the end in and of itself? The latter is, to me, an alien mentality, but I can see how it could be an important design consideration, contingent on the neoteny of the target market.

I dont agree with that. MUSICIANS/MUSIC PRODUCERS aproach synths like instruments to use

In my expierience working with various producers (some well known) despite having huge talent, great at mixing, laying ideas, creating sounds, not that many are really "technical" to the level that they actually know exactly what they are doing and what might be the result. Therefore its understandable why simple in design synths are popular, less complexity gives more room for overal musical piece to create.

[Urs]

As far as i remember Zebra was inspired by Virus? correct me if im wrong Urs.

More like "anti-inspired". I found the sound of my Virus (early A) too aggressive so I was going for something more pleasant.

[recursive one]

As far as i remember Zebra was inspired by Virus?

I wonder where this confusion is coming from. I also used to think that this is the case (before I've bought the Virus). Maybe because there are factory banks of early Viruses "converted" to Zebra, dunno. Anyway, Urs has just confirmed that the character I appreciate in Virus was intentionally avoided in Zebra, which is good to know actually - probably gives some hints about what I should not expect from Zebra 3.

Anyway that Zebra vs "S-synths" discussions was interesting, it helped to me to understand what Zebra is not. It is clearly not an S-synth. S-synths are about getting good sounds in few tweaks with predefined character. I mean you can get wide variety of sounds from Spire but it will always sound like Spire. On the other hand it's hard to tell what Zerba sounds like, I can only say what it doesn't sound like.

I wonder how many people in the world, except for Urs himself, have effectively mastered Zebra's complexity. Truth to be told, I've heard much more Zebra patches I dislike than those I like. This may boil down to my own tastes, of course, but maybe it has something to do with it's interface. When I try to program Zebra in the same way I program Spire, Serum or Virus I usually don't get sounds that satisfy me - then I try to tweak whatever is here to tweak and end up with total mess. I'm far from an expert synth programmer anyway but I'm finding it hard to apply general synthesis knowledge to Zebra beyond making basic patches, it's more like "forget what you know about synths and start learning from the basics" which is not what I feel like doing since there are S-synths at my hand giving me satisfactory results.

[Urs]

probably gives some hints about what I should not expect from Zebra 3.

Well, the Virus has come a long way and so has Zebra. Zebra left the fixed architecture path at version 1.5, about a few months after its initial release. It also deploys different strategies of anti-aliasing, some of which come close to the Virus in spectral content but without the aliasing. That said, the Virus is of no importance for Zebra's development.

Truth to be told, I've heard much more Zebra patches I dislike than those I like. This may boil down to my own tastes, of course, but maybe it has something to do with it's interface.

We also believe that the 2.8 user interface upgrade will let Zebra2 magically sound better

Joking aside, what you hear is variety. Zebra does a few sounds which don't sound like they're made with a synthesizer. Zebra also does some sounds that have to be learned to play. It's a disadvantage in initial perception, but it pans out positively in the long run.

I wonder how many people in the world, except for Urs himself, have effectively mastered Zebra's complexity.

The point about Zebra isn't mastering its complexity. The point about Zebra is realizing how *little* complexity gets you even further than overly complex systems, due to Zebra's economic workflow and architecture.

My view on the S-synth debate: S-synths could do much more, and also many more sounds you would dislike. But due to their tabbed interfaces and their sometimes prohibitive architecture, people stick to a very small sonic territory. Recreating those architectures in Zebra is a piece of cake (the init patch typically covers it), but even with that, sound designers typically get a wider palette of sounds. This is not because Zebra is so complicated, it is because it's approach is less constraining than the one of S-synths.

Also, we put a lot of Zebra DNA into Hive. Hive is basically a mini-Zebra with a fixed architecture and no fancy stuff at all. Yet, because it doesn't make "more is better" its mantra, the presets in Hive cover wider sonic ground than what I've heard from any S-synths I've tried. It is because of the user interface that encourages tad more experimentation than what the UI of S-synths suggest.

[zvenx]

I think only one of the S- synths have a tabbed interface btw... Unless I am totally misunderstanding what you mean by a tabbed interface.
rsp

[Elektronisch]

Also, we put a lot of Zebra DNA into Hive. Hive is basically a mini-Zebra with a fixed architecture and no fancy stuff at all.

How can that be? the sound is very different in Hive, much cleaner, crispier, not so dark (unless using Dirty mode).

[vvilms]

Also, we put a lot of Zebra DNA into Hive. Hive is basically a mini-Zebra with a fixed architecture and no fancy stuff at all.

How can that be? the sound is very different in Hive, much cleaner, crispier, not so dark (unless using Dirty mode).

Could ^this be what you're looking for? (My apologies if you already knew about ^this.)

[recursive one]

My view on the S-synth debate: S-synths could do much more, and also many more sounds you would dislike. But due to their tabbed interfaces and their sometimes prohibitive architecture, people stick to a very small sonic territory.

If you are talking about factory presets and commercial preset packs, i think that's because this sonic terrirory sells the best, not because the sound designers don't know how to make other sounds or because the interface or achitecture of the S-synths makes it too complicated.

Though I agree that the workflow of S-synths somethow influences the results - everybody knows how to make hypersaws in Spire but the "advanced" tricks like how to patch an FM configuration in the matrix by using oscillators as mod source and modulation amounts as targets are far less obvious.

TBH, i think that both the fetaure set and the interface of Spire, Serum and Virus TI plugin hit the sweet spot between versatility and ease of use. Sylenth and Hive are too limited, though both are capable of more sounds than their architecture would suggest.

[Elektronisch]

Also, we put a lot of Zebra DNA into Hive. Hive is basically a mini-Zebra with a fixed architecture and no fancy stuff at all.

How can that be? the sound is very different in Hive, much cleaner, crispier, not so dark (unless using Dirty mode).

Could ^this be what you're looking for? (My apologies if you already knew about ^this.)

I know about this, still the sound is different, this is very noticable when starting to add filters to zebra.

Here is the sound demo, ive used my melody chords for this one wich clearly shows the difference. First one is Hive and second is Zebra with no filters and osc set to crisp. Zebra creates phasing wich makes the sound somewhat unclean and looses the crispines becomes strident, harsh, muddy. And it even gets worse when using unison wheres Hive stays clean.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ou6yqk2anitfa ... d.mp3?dl=0

[Urs]

I think only one of the S- synths have a tabbed interface btw... Unless I am totally misunderstanding what you mean by a tabbed interface.
rsp

Sylenth has two tabbed layers. Interaction/routing between them is not possible. Spire and Serum have a lot of tabbed away modulation sources.

(Hive and Zebra have tabs too, but deployed in a different workflow, i.e. non-exclusive whenever possible)

[Urs]

If you are talking about factory presets and commercial preset packs, i think that's because this sonic terrirory sells the best, not because the sound designers don't know how to make other sounds or because the interface or achitecture of the S-synths makes it too complicated.

It slowly dawns on me that forgoing velocity and aftertouch assignments sells best. But that is a concession to profit which I will never make.

[Urs]

I know about this, still the sound is different, this is very noticable when starting to add filters to zebra.

You just discovered what zero delay feedback filters are about (and clever oscillator detune laws). Zebra3 will have them.

[recursive one]

If you are talking about factory presets and commercial preset packs, i think that's because this sonic terrirory sells the best, not because the sound designers don't know how to make other sounds or because the interface or achitecture of the S-synths makes it too complicated.

It slowly dawns on me that forgoing velocity and aftertouch assignments sells best. But that is a concession to profit which I will never make.

This is quite puzzling how did you came to this conclusion.

[zvenx]

If you are talking about factory presets and commercial preset packs, i think that's because this sonic terrirory sells the best, not because the sound designers don't know how to make other sounds or because the interface or achitecture of the S-synths makes it too complicated.

It slowly dawns on me that forgoing velocity and aftertouch assignments sells best. But that is a concession to profit which I will never make.

Thank goodness......
Different strokes for different folks, but those for me are essential and one of the good indicators of how many banks I buy for a synth.

I was actually very surprised when I finally realised many of the O-synths patches were not aftertouch affected.

rsp