A rise of "Page 22" (post by Jan) rubbish in the Cafe?

[elassi]

Common, I know you, you're not as shy as you pretend to be, you can criticize pretty harsh...

Sure, when my own business is involved. You know what I'm talking about.

But you see, too, that it's not - nor was - personal, never ever. And I see that you slowly understand this attitude/point of view.

[Tricky-Loops]

Common, I know you, you're not as shy as you pretend to be, you can criticize pretty harsh...

Sure, when my own business is involved. You know what I'm talking about.

But you see, too, that it's not - nor was - personal, never ever. And I see that you slowly understand this attitude/point of view.

Not only because of your own business, you were quite harsh in some HPC threads and with Mr. "Record-Fee" Melda etc. Now I'm wondering why you are so shy regarding giving feedback to other artists...

[elassi]

Not only because of your own business, you were quite harsh [...] with Mr. "Record-Fee" Melda

Yep, there you got me. All I can say is that it's indeed 'personal'.

Now I'm wondering why you are so shy regarding giving feedback to other artists...

Not shy but polite.

[vurt]

The problem with having a high post count (I think 50 is high) before posting in the cafe is that you run the risk of encouraging people to spampost just to reach the limit. Most people probably won't do this, but the more obnoxious ones - the ones whose music I think you guys want to avoid - would be at that limit in a day or two. A spammer is a spammer. The thoughtful musicians out there, who maybe lurk on KVR and only contribute when they have something constructive to say, might not hit 50 posts within a year. Yet they're probably the ones whose music you actually want to listen to.

In other words, a low post limit (10? 15? 20? 25?) might make sense. Stops people from creating an account just to post their songs. But post count does not equal quality of posts, nor say anything about the music you make.

Alternatively, we could only allow vurt to post stuff in the cafe, that would be fun

Another option could be to limit posts based on membership time, i.e. after 3 months of being a registered member.

dont you worry, when i get a computer sorted and can upload stuff again (only have a mobile phone at the min so interweb is a pain) im taking the cafe back! have two years or so worth of tapes to share

[Tricky-Loops]

Usually I'm quite polite, too. Only when my ears are bleeding because a track is extremely distorted or someone posts a 30 second piece that sounds like a hypnotizing telephone wait loop, I can be a bit harsh, too...

[PurpleCatfishBettie]

is it true that, in general music cafe used to be quite the 'flame fest'? i've read references to this here and there, but not so much experienced it. granted, i've had people say the equivalent of 'give it up already!' to certain of my postings, but in general music cafe seems quite polite. i've been around kvr for 5+ years, and am curious if there was a 'flame fest period' pre-2009. if so, maybe we could go more 'no holds barred' going forward?

'your song sounds like a chinese whorehouse in the middle of a typhoon -- a cacaphony'... that sort of thing...

[Tricky-Loops]

I remember murnau posting as feedback to my song: "You wasted 3 minutes of my life..."

But after this intermezzo the guy was pretty friendly, and we had a good contact.

I'm wondering where he is now, I haven't seen him here at KVR since summer...

Maybe I should make a thread about missing KVR members...

[herodotus]

is it true that, in general music cafe used to be quite the 'flame fest'? i've read references to this here and there, but not so much experienced it. granted, i've had people say the equivalent of 'give it up already!' to certain of my postings, but in general music cafe seems quite polite. i've been around kvr for 5+ years, and am curious if there was a 'flame fest period' pre-2009. if so, maybe we could go more 'no holds barred' going forward?

'your song sounds like a chinese whorehouse in the middle of a typhoon -- a cacaphony'... that sort of thing...

I remember very little flaming among regulars. But there are always trolls and semi-trolls who like to make fun of music that doesn't make sense to them.

There used to be a small group of people who were more open than usual to 'difficult' music, whether it was the European Avant-Garde of the 50s or Noise Music like Merzbow or early Neubauten or what have you. Some of these people were frequent posters, and some were better than usual at making trolls look stupid, so you can guess how that would turn out.

Aside from that, I have watched three contest threads devolve into mud pits of insult slinging, which was unfortunate, but that isn't really too bad considering how old this place is.

[RunBeerRun]

I remember murnau posting as feedback to my song: "You wasted 3 minutes of my life..." .

ha ha, that sounds pretty rude! I generally tell people about anything positive I heard in it. I'm not really that amused even if I did like it, so it really is about all the same to me.

[PurpleCatfishBettie]

herodotus: thanks for the skinny on old-style kvr. it looks as though the trolling/flaming gambit is no 'remedy'. best just to keep on keeping on...

[V0RT3X]

I remember some dude insulting my music, saying it was terrible. I actually got somewhat upset over it, I then looked into the music he made and .. felt much better about my stuff.

Trolls often say crap about other peoples work, because they don't really have anything going for them. I just hit the "ignore user" option on these people and just filter them out.

[trimph1]

I remember murnau posting as feedback to my song: "You wasted 3 minutes of my life..."

But after this intermezzo the guy was pretty friendly, and we had a good contact.

I'm wondering where he is now, I haven't seen him here at KVR since summer...

Maybe I should make a thread about missing KVR members...

I am wondering the same thing about murnau. I hope things are well with him.

[Hink]

herodotus: thanks for the skinny on old-style kvr. it looks as though the trolling/flaming gambit is no 'remedy'. best just to keep on keeping on...

when it comes my music trolls and flamers kinda amuse me. I think that just naturally comes from age, I mean if since 1971 no one has ever said anything that led to me giving up it's hardly likely someone is going to say something now. In fact often it is negative attacks and what some people do not say that speaks volumes. Example, March I finish a song and there is a FB page about being from my hometown of Bedford Massachusetts.

There is a guy there all the time who I didn't know growing up, he came to town when he was in his teens but I was like two or three then so we never met that we know of. Turns out he plays guitar and when I post my song there he starts out his comment with "if that is really you playing" and goes on to say "that is hard rock and hard rock to me is what our parents said about rock and roll, it's just noise and anyone can do that". Then he said something about Bruce Springsteen and how the guy has no talent and anyone can play that. Naturally this confused me because I have never been even remotely compared to Springsteen and tbh I do not nor do I ever plan on owning any Springsteen music, I really am not a fan at all...but I dont diss Springsteen

Face to face when I get such comments as "anyone can do that" I offer my guitar to them..."here yah go" Cant do that online though, but everything he said was a compliment. He did say he respected what I was trying to do.

There was a history though, about six months before I was talking about something with an old and very dear friend about the state of recording today and what can be done and saying something about my not being a computer engineer (my good friend is) and talking about my studio. That's when this other guy came along and said "I am computer engineer and I have a professional studio".

Cool, maybe someone worth knowing I thought...his pro studio consisted of a very nice 62 strat, a blackface twin reverb both he bought was they were new, an old mac and garage band. I sent him the list of my gear that I have on my music page and it's a pretty long list. This was before he heard my new song and he said on more than one occasion that I was foolish to have all the gear I have and not be renting it out and such. He said these things in a mocking way, "you've got all that gear and what do you have to show for it?" I told him, peace in my heart and soul

He wasn't able to post his music, he doesn't talk to me anymore...

[Frantz]

The thoughtful musicians out there, who maybe lurk on KVR and only contribute when they have something constructive to say, might not hit 50 posts within a year. Yet they're probably the ones whose music you actually want to listen to.

I think excluding lurkers with brilliant music is an extreme edge case. I am happy to lose them, if I can also filter out 50 "check out my new beat" posts.

[Frantz]

why not just divide the cafe into sub forums for different genres

Because most musicians don't want to pigeonhole their music into a specific genre. This is the job of the marketing department, not the artist.

Also you would have dozens of arguments along the lines of "How dare you post this horrible bro-step track in the progressive house sub-forum!! It is 139 BPM whereas we allow a maximum of 121.67913 BPM in this sub-forum."