Viper｜1.2.2 update with bugfixes and new skin

[adamszabo]

Wow! I had no idea you had done Viper in Flowstone. Wow! What a great advertisement it is for the platform. Is JP6K also done in Flowstone? It leaves all my years of SynthEdit noodling for dead.

Yes JP6K is done in FlowStone as well

[Vortifex]

Edited

[adamszabo]

Ok, there has been additional development. I had some more correspondence with them and it seems at first they didnt really understand what I meant, or perhaps I didnt explain it with the correct terms. I had to explain in greater detail that I wont be hacking or reverse engineering anything, I would be gathering all the data necessary for the data conversion from the Virus C Manual, in page 163 in the System Exclusive Data section. Its there for free, anyone can look at it. I wouldnt also be using the words "Access" or "Virus". Again, I dont like to quote private emails, but in this context its important so I hope they forgive me. This was the next answer I got:

I probably do not understand in which way you want to convert the files. But that of course doesn't matter. If you manage to create a converter without any reverse engineering of our hardware or software - and - you also don't use any of our trademarks, I don't see a problem. You should note though that there are tons of commercial patches from third parties out there. Those companies have their own license agreements and I can't speak for them.

So I guess if I call the feature "Import .mid bank" or "Import .mid data" and I dont specifically use their trademark words in any marketing or documentation then I should be fine. Now the question is what do I do with the 3rd party Virus bank owners. I dont know if any of them prevent other software accessing the parameter values that they put in there.

[plrdmus]

I think there are currently no signs that the Virus may be developed further, Ti3 or even firmware updates adressing the bugs and compatiblity issues seem not very likely any time soon.

But if they still sell it they may hold on their IP rights just because of that.

Also, the DSP chip used (manufactured by NXP) will become discontinued within the next year (so they better have a bunch of stock ready)

Of course there are IP rights. And even if the product becomes discontinued, those IP rights still exist. Just in case they rewrite all the code and release a VTI 3 (who knows... but I wouldn't count on that)

But honestly, it's quite... strange? that they allowed the redistribution of their wavetables

But studying how the exact Virus firmware interpets the Virus own presets in order to make a software that reads the same presets might be a different thing, that's why I think it's better to ask someone who actually knows the related laws and cases (especially if Access themselves don't approve this).

That has already been discussed, being the most notable cases associated with console emulators that infringed some patents allegedly (they didn't)

I can't seem to find the software license agreement on their website, so I guess it's included with the plugin. Also, I wasn't able to find any patents related to this. (and here is what a lawyer says about file formats)

So I guess if I call the feature "Import .mid bank" or "Import .mid data" and I dont specifically use their trademark words in any marketing or documentation then I should be fine. Now the question is what do I do with the 3rd party Virus bank owners. I dont know if any of them prevent other software accessing the parameter values that they put in there.

I don't see the problem, as long as it's the user who provides the files.

I mean... should you sue CodeWeavers for allowing your plugin to run on macOS, cause it's intended for Windows?

Anyways, I'd feel happy as a sound designer, since more people will reach my product

[anoise]

Importing virus presets is a cool idea but what happens with the presets that utilize the formant, PWM, etc., the missing features of the Virus TI? Those presets will sound nothing like the original. So what is the point?

[recursive one]

Now the question is what do I do with the 3rd party Virus bank owners. I dont know if any of them prevent other software accessing the parameter values that they put in there.

If it's commerical soundsets, I guess their creatrors would be happy if their sounds could be used in Viper becuase this would mean more people buying their soundsets. Maybe some fo them would use the converter themselves to cerate Viper versions of their soundsets.

IMO, bad things may only happen if someone converts a Virus soundset and starts distributing it as his own Viper bank, but that's not your responsibility.

I'm curious how the converter could theoretically handle the presets that use wavetables (and especially those that use Wave PWM, Formant and Grain)

[recursive one]

That has already been discussed, being the most notable cases associated with console emulators that infringed some patents allegedly (they didn't)

I can't seem to find the software license agreement on their website, so I guess it's included with the plugin. Also, I wasn't able to find any patents related to this. (and here is what a lawyer says about file formats)

Patents, copyrights and EULAs are different things, they shouldn't be mixed up.

But if you read the Adam's latest measage it appears that Access just have misundertstood him at first and they actually don't mind the converter as long as their own code and trademarks are not used.

[adamszabo]

Yes, I guess if someone convert a commercial virus bank and starts selling it then thats pretty much not allowed, but again, I cannot prevent anyone from doing that, and that wont be my responsibility.

Regarding the conversion, my initial thought is that the most successful conversion will be the Virus A/B/C banks which dont have the Virus TI features. Viper could covert those pretty well. If one were to open a bank that has special Ti features like Grain or Formant oscs, then it would just have to revert to the classic osc or something, and indeed it wont sound similar. If the Ti bank only uses older features then the conversion would be successful. One would also need to download and use the free waveforms/wavetables for the patches to match, since I cannot provide them with Viper directly.

[vertibration]

screw it Adam, dont waste anymore of your time with this if it seems like trouble. Viper has lots of potential, and you can always work on new oscillators and effects, new skins, and other features in the time it would take you to mess about with loading virus patches.

[Yim]

If only I could get the Vengeance Incubation soundsets to work with Viper...

[adamszabo]

If only I could get the Vengeance Incubation soundsets to work with Viper...

Those would most likely work since they were made with the Virus C as far as I know

[plrdmus]

screw it Adam, dont waste anymore of your time with this if it seems like trouble. Viper has lots of potential, and you can always work on new oscillators and effects, new skins, and other features in the time it would take you to mess about with loading virus patches.

But more soundsets can bring lots of new users. Which is good for development.

[chk071]

screw it Adam, dont waste anymore of your time with this if it seems like trouble. Viper has lots of potential, and you can always work on new oscillators and effects, new skins, and other features in the time it would take you to mess about with loading virus patches.

I'm not a Viper owner, but, TBH, I agree. This seems like a waste of time compared to the other things you mentioned.

[izonin]

Why not write a standalone Virus -> Viper patch converter and release it as a separate free product? I think that this would be the safest route.

[dionenoid]

So, recently got a new studio system. And yay, Viper demo now finally works without problems here