u-he refurbished Preset Browser discussion

[pdxindy]

Overwriting a favourited preset 'defavourites' it.

Likewise, overwriting a preset changes its creation date: changing its modification date is expected, but the creation date should be preserved…

I often overwrite presets because I have done nothing more than add some notes on usage.

[hakey]

I often overwrite presets because I have done nothing more than add some notes on usage.

Same here. It might be better if notes could be added without the need to resave the preset?

Probably easier said than done.

[drzhnn]

Surely you guys know this, but just in case somebody doesn't... you can save changes to current preset without opening the save window by just Alt clicking the Save button. Doesn't help if you want to just add description or usage notes though. And saving like this still removes it from favorites

[aaron aardvark]

The more I use the new preset browser, and learning how to use it, the more it is growing on me. I wish u-he great success with Repro. I would think Repro-5 should generate a lot of new interest in Repro.

Urs,
You and your team are very talented.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Surely you guys know this, but just in case somebody doesn't... you can save changes to current preset without opening the save window by just Alt clicking the Save button. Doesn't help if you want to just add description or usage notes though. And saving like this still removes it from favorites

I had no idea about that actually!

Separately, I was thinking about bulk tagging presets earlier today. I think it should ideally be allowed. To make it work however and prevent accidents, I think when tagging more than one preset at a time, a dialog box should appear asking if you "want to apply X tag to Y number of presets." As much as I hate dialog boxes this would still be a huge timesaver when trying to tag multiple patches. The dialog box would exist solely to save you from yourself.

[drzhnn]

I've been testing the new browser whole weekend and here's a couple of notes. I intentionally didn't read the manual to see how friendly the new browser is:

1) Fast left and then right clicking in the folders view is registered as a double click. I want to select a folder and open its context menu (to create a new subfolder), but instead I enter the folder search mode.

2) Folder search mode is VERY non-intuitive. Actually it is quite scary, because every time I enter this mode it feels like I'm doing something wrong. There's no indication of what's going on, the folder list just scrolls weirdly, all my preset folders completely disappear from view and a gray bar with no labels or tooltips appears at the top of the list. What does it mean? It feels more like I just deleted something. Two days of testing and I still don't know what that gray bar does, except exiting the search mode. If it's all it does, then why it looks like a bar and not like a regular close button? Also, if I just entered a search mode, I'd expect my cursor to be in the search field, so I can start typing my search query. And if the search field placeholder text would change from "Search" to "Search in folder %foldername%", that would really help a lot to understand what's going on.

3) Selecting a search field that already has some text in it, will put cursor at the beginning of the string. I'd expect it to be at the end, or even better, to select the old query, so I can simply start typing a new one. If there's any 'Clear search field' button, I didn't find it.

4) If in the search field I type a query that is already in the Search History, the second item with the same name will be added to Search History. I'd expect it to just select the existing one.

The new preset browsers looks very powerful and has some pretty cool features, I'm going to use it a lot in the future, but in its current state I don't really like using it. Because of the selection lag in the folder list and the accidental opening of the folder search mode, the whole process of searching presets became very slow for me. I used to work fast, but now I can't, because I end up moving folders around instead of switching between them, entering folder search mode instead of opening context menus.

[EvilDragon]

Agreed with 3) and 4)

That bar you mention in 2) is there when search is restricted to a particular folder. Agreed that could be more intuitive.

[tasmaniandevil]

The new preset browsers looks very powerful and has some pretty cool features, I'm going to use it a lot in the future, but in its current state I don't really like using it.

There are still many (mostly) small bugs in the new browser which need to be ironed out over time. This whole browser rewrite turned out to be a much more demanding operation than anybody would have thought. What you are testing right now is just the first iteration which felt to be stable enough to actually let it out in the wild to gather feedback from users. This is only a first step in the evolution of our browser, and it surely won't stop where it is right now. We are constantly thinking about how to improve this further and all the feedback helps us a lot in achieving this.

Fast left and then right clicking in the folders view is registered as a double click.

Yes, that is one of the known Windows bugs. This one can be quite annoying, I know.

Selecting a search field that already has some text in it, will put cursor at the beginning of the string.

This might be another Windows bug. I'll check it out next week. Thanks for mentioning this, it might have flown under my radar.

If in the search field I type a query that is already in the Search History, the second item with the same name will be added to Search History.

If you create two identical searches in the search history, one of them will be deleted once you are done with the search. It can't purge the doublet as long as your search is still ongoing, because you might still be in the process of refining that search.

the folder list just scrolls weirdly, all my preset folders completely disappear from view and a gray bar with no labels or tooltips appears at the top of the list. What does it mean?

Once you double-clicked a folder, it will show only the contents of that folder and it's subfolders. If there are no more folders inside, all you see in the folder tree will be the search history and the smart folders.
The gray bar without labels is yet another Windows bug. Sometimes it can happen that it either stays empty or shows completely weird characters. It is supposed to display the current folder you are in. Once this bug is fixed, it will be a lot clearer what is going on there.

Folder search mode is VERY non-intuitive. Actually it is quite scary, because every time I enter this mode it feels like I'm doing something wrong.

I actually agree with you here. This is one of the main areas of constant debate. There are some ideas floating around to improve this. But this is one of the larger areas which need refinement, so there will be lots of thinking and testing involved, and it might take some time to implement a better solution.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I see what you guys are shooting for with the folder search, I'm just not sure it's entirely necessary if the rest of the tagging system is doing its job. I'd pretend folder search doesn't exist and focus entirely on the problem. Ultimately it's about finding a specific preset or a good [unknown] sound quickly right? As a user, what would I be trying to do that might lead me to think, "I need a folder search?" Is there some other gap in text and tag based searching that's creating this need and can that gap be closed elsewhere, or is Folder Search just another way to do the same thing?

I think the browser is close, just needs a few refinements. I don't think anything below is new to you guys, but just wanted to summarize some of my own thoughts with the Browser and where I think the opportunities are. The biggest of which for me being...

The Tagging Process
I think this area has been neglected to date. Without tags, you only needed to build a simple Text Search feature into the old browser. And yes, while there's already tagging, the current process to do so is 1) hidden, and 2) still very clunky to use. The focus has gone into browsing and searching the tags, which makes sense, but now it's time to think about how to create the tags and what they should be. Specifically:

1. "Tag This Patch" is buried as a right-click option under the save menu. It's entirely separate from the rest of the patch creation/saving process. This effectively hides a key feature. Tag This Patch is currently the only place where all tags can be seen and applied to a patch in a single fell-swoop. I have a few suggestions here: 1) merge the tagging with the Save screen sooner rather than later, even if it's ugly at first, 2) add an additional "Tag This Patch" option to the Browser itself either via a right click or even consider...

2....Making all tags visible on the right-hgand side of the screen just like they are on the left. Right now, the right-hand side of the browser window allows the creation and editing of tags, but it's clumsy due to the menu disappearing and needing to be reopened and closed. I suggest making all tags visible in that list on the right and just highlight the active ones (just like you do on the left side of the screen). Allow users to click the tags they want to turn on and off. Just mimic the functionality on the left on the right, where left-side is for the current search, right-side is for the current patch.

3. The Category list. There's already been much discussion on it that doesn't need repeating. It just needs to make sense to your users and be intuitive. If a user has to ask how to categorize any type of bog-standard synth patch, then it's already too complicated.

4. Bulk tagging of presets. Allow for bulk tagging of patches by selecting multiple in the browser, but have a confirmation dialog box appear in order to confirm before actually applying the tags to more than one patch. The dialog box would exist solely to prevent users from overwriting or adding tags to multiple patches in error.

Other smaller browser improvements:

• Make sub-categories fully optional. Eliminates the "Bass - Any" and "Bass - Bass" problems.
• Add the ability to name and rename Favourites
• Move "Junk" to the bottom of the Favourites list
• Change the color of Favourites 1 so it's not the low-contrast Gray (make that Favourites #8)
• Seriously considering eliminating folder search or only implementing it post-refinement - current state is confusing and clunky.
• Prevent folder moves from the browser - I've accidentally moved folders into others by a few times now
• Consider creation of a "Library" tag (would work like "Author" where it's free form) for third-party presets or user-created libraries
• Make the preset browser taller - I made an alternate skin where the browser covers the keyboard/FX panel and this makes the "Tags" subfolder in the directory view much easier to see/use due to the extra vertical space. Also shows more presets in the list.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

One last thing...and this has been a very minor issue with every U-he synth's save dialog box: when saving a preset, clicking the "Tab" key inserts five empty spaces. I'd much prefer it tabbed the cursor to the next section of the window (e.g. from the Enter Preset Name to Author fields). This will also prevent all those empty squares in the preset information windows since the Browser doesn't know what to do with a tab character.

[drzhnn]

One last thing...and this has been a very minor issue with every U-he synth's save dialog box: when saving a preset, clicking the "Tab" key inserts five empty spaces.

Hm... On windows the tab key works as you'd expect. Not only in Repro, but also in other u-he plugins. Probably a mac thing?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

One last thing...and this has been a very minor issue with every U-he synth's save dialog box: when saving a preset, clicking the "Tab" key inserts five empty spaces.

Hm... On windows the tab key works as you'd expect. Not only in Repro, but also in other u-he plugins. Probably a mac thing?

This prompted me to do some additional digging and look at that, it's actually DAW specific! So here's what happens when you press the tab key in each field in the save dialog...

Studio One:
Presetname Field: Nothing happens
Author field: Nothing happens
Description field: You get five empty spaces, the Preset Information shows the tab as an empty square.
Usage field: You get five empty spaces, the Preset Information shows the tab as an empty square.

Reaper:
Presetname Field: moves cursor to the Author field (desired behavior)
Author field: moves cursor to the Description field (desired behavior)
Description field: moves cursor to the Usage field (desired behavior)
Usage field: Focuses on the Ok box (desired behavior)

Now what's interesting is that Studio One is definitely passing the Tab key, or at least some version of it as evidenced by the five empty spaces it'll add in the Description and Usage fields. Just for some reason, it's not working the same way it does in Reaper.

[Aspects of Tone]

I see what you guys are shooting for.... in the list.[/list]

This is a great summary. But I think it also needs the ability to hide the keyboard/fx. Plus this would make more room for tags on the right (great idea).

Bulk tagging of presets. Allow for bulk tagging of patches by selecting multiple in the browser, but have a confirmation dialog box appear in order to confirm before actually applying the tags to more than one patch. The dialog box would exist solely to prevent users from overwriting or adding tags to multiple patches in error.

I would like bulk tagging but if this was implemented I would like a preference to turn off the confirmation dialog. If I wanted to go through a lot of presets and tag them then a constant nag would be very annoying, not to mention hard on the RSI. I always turn these things off. I don't need protecting from myself. If I make a mistake then I'll fix it, and learn not to do that again

[Aspects of Tone]

I've looked through this thread and, unless I've missed it, there doesn't seem to be any discussion of user defined tags.

Does no-one want this?

For me, the problem with pre-defined tags is trying to decide what tag fits my sound. Unless it is obvious (it's a bass) then it can get quite subjective, especially the character. At the moment these seem to be opposites, e.g. either bright or dark. What about in between?

So tagging would be based on my feelings/thoughts about a patch. So, once the basic category is clear (bass, pad, etc) I might think of a patch as, say, a rich pad, not bright and not dark. But there's no tag for that. Or I might like to tag presets based on the track I created them for. Or my own, very subjective, system. Spicy, fruity, bluppy, bloopy, etc. (Don't laugh, I have used these for some of my names, I know what I mean )

Anyone?

[hakey]

I've looked through this thread and, unless I've missed it, there doesn't seem to be any discussion of user defined tags.

Does no-one want this?

It's been discussed elsewhere but it's not going to happen - too subjective, potentially confusing, doesn't fit the NKS system.

Adding keywords in the preset description box, which can then be returned in browser searches, effectively gives the same function as user defined tags?