DUNE 3 is now available!!

[clipnotic]

Maybe developers today should start with version 10.0 and then go backwards until version 0.0.1

If you want that, you should buy current hardware synths, sequencers ... !

[fisherKing]

As long as you don't want to use any filter resonance, maybe, but the Model D's filter is garbage, just like all ladder filters.

Sorry, no "hoops to jump through" here. Dead simple, lightning fast. Does it make patches for you ? No, you actually have to put in some effort.

I'm sorry, Tek, but when you say stuff like that, which is obvious bullshit to anyone who has used the thing, it just makes you look like a blinkered fanboi. The hoops are there for everyone to see. I'll give you a simple example - you can only see one oscillator's controls at a time, so if you want to change a setting, you first have to click on the little button for the correct oscillator. If you only want to make a single change, that is literally twice as many steps as, say, Thorn. And even before you do that, you need to make sure you are working on the correct layer and you have to decide whether to work with all the layers on or whether you should maybe solo it while you work on that oscillator. Now it's 3 or 4 times as much effort as Thorn. Over the course of creating a patch, or even just editing one to work in a mix, you are going to have to perform maybe a hundred more actions. That is NOT "dead simple", it's an annoyance.

You mean this?

No, this - "If an oscillator sounds 'off' to me, I have to mute them all in turn to figure out which one to edit." That's a real frustration that I don't encounter in any other synth I use. Then add in your 3 seconds to find the right reverb to turn off and it all starts to add up.

I guess Dune 3 is just too much synth for some people.

It is certainly about 10 times more synth than I need so most of the time I find something else that gets the job done without so much hassle. Honestly, as good as it sounds I would never have bought DUNE if I'd had to and there are several people here who have found it frustrating enough that they have sold their license.

i don't find it difficult at all to work in dune3; it's just not that complicated. spend a day with massive x (amazing, btw) if you want to take on a challenging GUI.

i use the plugin a lot, and have never had to perform 'a hundred actions' to edit a sound

what you feel about it speaks for you, not for everyone. if teksonik (or i) find it workable, we... find it workable. speak for yourself, no one make you spokesperson for the kvr community...

[Cinebient]

Maybe developers today should start with version 10.0 and then go backwards until version 0.0.1

If you want that, you should buy current hardware synths, sequencers ... !

Nah, hardware is too limited and doesn´t sound better these days. I must say i like knobs and tactile feedback is great but not worth the price at the end.
I stay with plug-ins and apps

[perfumer]

As long as you don't want to use any filter resonance, maybe, but the Model D's filter is garbage, just like all ladder filters.

YOU CAN SAY THAT AGAIN, BONES!

[clipnotic]

Maybe developers today should start with version 10.0 and then go backwards until version 0.0.1

If you want that, you should buy current hardware synths, sequencers ... !

Nah, hardware is too limited and doesn´t sound better these days. I must say i like knobs and tactile feedback is great but not worth the price at the end.
I stay with plug-ins and apps

yes, current hardware is 0.0.1 ...

[Teksonik]

Sorry, no "hoops to jump through" here. Dead simple, lightning fast. Does it make patches for you ? No, you actually have to put in some effort.

Now it's 3 or 4 times as much effort as Thorn.

Apparently you don't realize that Dune 3 is at least 3 or 4 times the synth that Thorn is (I own both). More features/layers etc is going to demand a more complex interface and require a little more effort.

Here's how you sound to me....."Awww I have to do a couple of mouse clicks Waaaaa". I'm sorry Bones but when you say stuff like that it just makes you sound like a spoiled, lazy brat.

I'm sorry that some people are unable to get their heads around Dune 3's workflow. It's one of the best sounding synths on the market. To give it up just because of a few mouse clicks is beyond silly in my opinion.

Once again spend some time with Dune 3 and you'll find that it's dead simple and lightning fast to create patches. Is it perfect ? No of course not nothing in the world is perfect which a fact that some haven't seemed to grasp yet. In all aspects of life some effort is required in order to produce results.

If you care about the quality of your sound then Dune 3 is the synth for you......

[Introspective]

I'm sorry that some people are unable to get their heads around Dune 3's workflow. It's one of the best sounding synths on the market. To give it up just because of a few mouse clicks is beyond silly in my opinion.

Dude. It's not that I can't "get my head around" the workflow, it's that I don't LIKE the workflow.

You sound waaaaaay too upset about this. Are the devs friends of yours or something?!

There are other very similar layer-heavy synths that don't bother me: Avenger, Spire, Icarus, Omnisphere. ...None of them irk me the way Dune does. And if you're trying to say Dune sounds better than any of those, you are wrong, full stop.

Just to be clear: I'm not saying Dune sounds bad. Not at all! It's quite good. But so are those others, and they are all *so similar* that one need only pick the synth that fits best for one's preferences. To say "It's one of the best sounding synths on the market," one must admit that the market is pretty friggin' crowded with excellent-sounding synths. There are easily 50 synths that sound as good (even if you specify "sounds most like an Access Virus," there are still at least 5, maybe 10). :\

But just to add fuel to the fire: layers are dumb. Full stop. I've *never* understood why people like them, and I basically just bypass them whenever I can. If I need a more complex sound, I'd rather load up another synth--even another instance of the same synth--than work with layers. It just seems really ... dumb to me. [shrug] I'd rather know where elements are than have to hunt for them in a crowded UI.

...But even with that aside: Dune doesn't work for me. Preference.

No need to get one's boxers in a bunch. :\

[recursive one]

(even if you specify "sounds most like an Access Virus," there are still at least 5, maybe 10). :\

Of which Dune will sound the least like Access Virus

I'm totally opposite to what was said here, I think Dune3 sounds good but not that special at all, but I do like the workflow. It's very easy to program from scratch, at least the kinds of sounds I use most often When I work on some part in a track which is not supposed to stand out and I don't have a specific sound in my head for this part, I will most likely load Dune 3 and start making the sound from init or use some of my saved presets.

I do agree that modifying factory presets may be quite tedious as they mostly have many layers and the layers are mixed up with global unison which makes the whole thing a PITA to operate. But I don't often use premade presets and rarely need more than one layer in a synth so it doesn't really bother me.

[Introspective]

I will most likely load Dune 3 and start making the sound from init or use some of my saved presets.

Yup, I can see that. Would be fine to work with from INIT.

...Still not the synth I would reach for in that case, but: it would work.

[Teksonik]

layers are dumb. Full stop. I've *never* understood why people like them, and I basically just bypass them whenever I can. If I need a more complex sound, I'd rather load up another synth--even another instance of the same synth--than work with layers. It just seems really ... dumb to me.

I use layers so I don't have to load another instance of the synth. So I can have everything in one patch. Much more efficient and since you're complaining about a mouse click or two here and there it seems like you'd be concerned about efficiency

It's seems really dumb to load up multiple instances of a synth when it's not necessary.

I build songs by using complex synths and complex patches rather than by using simple synths with multiple instances.

You are certainly free to consider Dune 3's workflow difficult but I'm just as free to say you're wrong.

I simply don't get it that's all. Like I said dead simple, lightning fast....when you bother to put the time in......

But feel free to use what you want. I just feel sorry for you that you're passing on a awesome synth because of a few mouse clicks. But to each his own........

[Introspective]

You are certainly free to consider Dune 3's workflow difficult but I'm just as free to say you're wrong.

You certainly are.

You are somewhat less free to tell me that "I can't wrap my head around it," which was my (main) beef with your reply. I certainly *can*, I just have better ways to spend my time.

Cheers.

[EnGee]

It's a great synth when doing my presets. It's easy to achieve great results not only because of the synth but the effects are top gives that lush to the sound.

I use mainly 1 to 2 layers with maximum 5-15 mod matrix slots. So, things are manageable and I find myself forgiving the minors because of the sound quality. I do feel the almost the same with Massive X. It's the opposite feeling I have with Pigments for example. I start very positive but end feeling not very satisfied with the results.

I think I need to do my own OSC and use only Dune 3. This will demonstrate to myself how far I can go with it

[BONES]

i don't find it difficult at all to work in dune3; it's just not that complicated.

It's not necessarily complicated, it's just a poorly designed GUI that leads to a measurably worse UX than with many other synths. It reminds me of z3ta+ - I bought it when it was $20 but, even then, it was just way more effort than it was worth to actually use the thing. DUNE's not as bad as that but it's towards that end of the continuum.

spend a day with massive x (amazing, btw) if you want to take on a challenging GUI.

But I don't, I have work to do and limited time to spend on it. If a tool gets in the way of me getting things done, I will look for another tool that doesn't. Looking at Massive X, I haven't even been tempted to watch any of the videos, let alone download the demo. Life's too short to waste on that kind of stuff.

i use the plugin a lot, and have never had to perform 'a hundred actions' to edit a sound

I'm sure you have, you just haven't noticed. There are so many things its GUI does poorly that I find it a real roadblock in my production process. Have you spent any time with Thorn? Thorn's GUI gets almost everything right, where DUNE's GUI gets many things wrong. The latest update improved things a little but it's still just about the last synth I'd think of using for anything. If my bandmate didn't stick it into so many things, we probably wouldn't use it at all but I still manage to get rid of half the instances he uses most of the time.

what you feel about it speaks for you, not for everyone. if teksonik (or i) find it workable, we... find it workable. speak for yourself, no one make you spokesperson for the kvr community...

I was simply adding my voice to a chorus of others with similar issues but it's objectively true and there for all to see. It comes down to the fact you and Tek are happy to put up with it, others of us are less happy. i.e. You can't say that these issues don't exist, you can only say that they don't bother you.

[BONES]

Apparently you don't realize that Dune 3 is at least 3 or 4 times the synth that Thorn is (I own both). More features/layers etc is going to demand a more complex interface and require a little more effort.

I find no advantage in DUNE at all, except maybe for that ultimate sound quality. You may want to equate the worth of something with the number of features it has but I tend to think the opposite - DUNE has become too complex to be of any further use to me and that "little more effort" is more than I can justify putting up with.

Here's how you sound to me....."Awww I have to do a couple of mouse clicks Waaaaa". I'm sorry Bones but when you say stuff like that it just makes you sound like a spoiled, lazy brat.

I'm not complaining about it, simply stating facts, facts you seem mostly happy to ignore.

I'm sorry that some people are unable to get their heads around Dune 3's workflow.

I don't think anyone has any trouble understanding it, it's just that it is much more convoluted than many other synths, which raises the question of why you would put up with it.

The problem, I think, comes from the beta testers, who are overwhelmingly patch designers, not working musicians/producers, so the more features Rich crams in, the happier you lot get. But as I said on another thread, I'd take the new VSTi over DUNE any day. It's limitations are inspiring, DUNE's lack of them is mind-numbingly boring to me. I'm the same with Hive - I loved it when I first got it but since they added all this extra cruft to v2.0, it has lost it's appeal as being quick and easy and I don't even think to use it any more. in fact, I've been thinking of going back to v1.2 because I do like its sound. Similarly, I am going to ask Rich to put DUNE 1 in my account so I can get it again.

It's one of the best sounding synths on the market. To give it up just because of a few mouse clicks is beyond silly in my opinion.

If it was the only good sounding synth on the market, then sure, but that's not even close to the case, is it? Thorn, ArcSyn, PhasePlant and Pigments are all synths I reach for before I even think of DUNE.

Once again spend some time with Dune 3 and you'll find that it's dead simple and lightning fast to create patches.

I have and that has not been my experience at all, especially if you compare it to Thorn or Pigments. ArcSyn can be a bit of a pain but it's still not as bad as DUNE. Strangely, ArcSyn also does a better job of emulating Wasp than DUNE, too.

If you care about the quality of your sound then Dune 3 is the synth for you......

Which is exactly why I put up with it but feeling that I have to "put up with it" is hardly a ringing endorsement, is it? OTOH, I love working with Thorn, PhasePlant and Pigments, those are all dead easy synths to use and give great results. In comparison DUNE feels like it is 5 or 10 years behind the times.

It's seems really dumb to load up multiple instances of a synth when it's not necessary.

Why? The engine is already running, adding instances doesn't kill your CPU but it puts things where they should be. e.g. If I want to mute or solo a part, it makes sense to do that in the mixer, which is always visible, not in the instrument GUI, which you have to bring up first and dismiss once you're done. Again, it makes simple processes more complicated than they need to be.

songs by using complex synths and complex patches rather than by using simple synths with multiple instances.

The keyword here is "build". Clearly you enjoy putting your effort into building prefab blocks that you can quickly fit together but most of us, I think, prefer to start with simple elements and build complexity only as we require it. After all, what are the chances that a complex patch with 8 layers is going to be exactly what a song needs? Unless you are building a song around it, chances are you'll spend longer editing it to make it work than it took you to create it.

y don't get it that's all. Like I said dead simple, lightning fast....when you bother to put the time in......

Do you not see the contradiction here? You say it's "lightning fast", then say "if you put the time in". I'll put the time in if I have to but if there is a faster way to get where I need to be, that's the route I'll take.

[gentleclockdivider]

Dune 3 has a modulation matrix that can be processed per sample tick , comparable to reaktor blocks , vcv rack etc..
Read that again and think about it for a moment

Enough said .