Branis wrote:From bitwig.com:headquest wrote: + External instrument/effect use32/64 bit VST support
Use your beloved VST plug-ins. In case of a plug-in crash, a protective mechanism prevents the application from crashing and you from losing your work.
Bitwig (!/?)
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- KVRAF
- 1618 posts since 15 Aug, 2001 from montreal, canada
That's not what he's talking about. It's a plugin in ableton called external instruments or external audio effect. It's to integrate external hardware into the live signal path. So you can send midi to an external keyboard and the keyboard is sent back in Ableton. Just like using a plugin. It does more.
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- KVRian
- 1372 posts since 21 May, 2004 from Serbia
Thanks for the infoparadiddle wrote:That's not what he's talking about. It's a plugin in ableton called external instruments or external audio effect. It's to integrate external hardware into the live signal path. So you can send midi to an external keyboard and the keyboard is sent back in Ableton. Just like using a plugin. It does more.
Branis wrote:From bitwig.com:headquest wrote: + External instrument/effect use32/64 bit VST support
Use your beloved VST plug-ins. In case of a plug-in crash, a protective mechanism prevents the application from crashing and you from losing your work.
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- KVRAF
- 1599 posts since 19 Aug, 2009
Even if they had half of that it would be a gigantic web page to look atheadquest wrote:
+ Video support
+ Rewire support
+ AU support
+ MIDI effects
+ Groove quantise/extraction
+ Unlimited audio/MIDI tracks, instruments and effects
+ More than 3 aux send slots
+ "Gapless audio" engine on the fly
+ Launch Modes
+ Freeze
+ Automatic plugin delay compensation, and track delay settings
+ Cross fades
+ Per track export
+ External instrument/effect use
+ Awesome library for the instruments, including loads of third party content (commercial and free)
+ flexible routing between tracks
+ Easy key mapping and MIDI controller mapping
+ Support for popular MIDI controllers
, quite honestly, being as experienced as they are, I take a few of those as granted (like midi mapping/controlers) and some I really think they dont exist at all, like video support.Something that some may miss is that there isnt a crossfader.
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
The crossfader is actually a huge omission if they are serious about the performance market. Tempo nudge buttons, one click MIDI controller and KEY controller buttons are all missing on that interface too...pc999 wrote:Something that some may miss is that there isnt a crossfader.
Another one I forgot on my previous list is of course Track Groups.
And the 8-macro assignment system.
And...
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- KVRAF
- 1596 posts since 19 May, 2011 from North Carolina
My take on this as a software guy (for many decades!) Sorry if it's been posted already - been trying to keep up with this thread but there're 18 pages (actually, I'm surprised there aren't more).
Given the pedigree of the Bitwig devs (Ableton), and the time between Live releases, my pure speculation is:
1) Live is a very mature and established product. The advantage to that is obviously that you have a large customer and engineering base to build on. The disadvantage (and this is what often gives competitors a leg up), is that, as your product matures, it still works with the original paradigm it was designed for, which may make adding certain features and making changes difficult - you must remain mostly compatible with your workflow paradigms, formats, etc, (or you risk throwing a real curve ball to many of your users), and some features may be very difficult to add by design.
2) At some point Ableton needed to determine whether to keep building on Live or create a new product - meaning they replace their existing product or cannibalize (and possibly confuse) their user-base with a second, similar product that they must support and maintain.
3) Good software engineers always want to design something new - there's just not a lot of joy in maintaining/refactoring an older base of code.
4) Ableton made the decision not to pursue a new product or rewrite
5) The Bitwig guys defected in order to pursue their vision - which looks to be a "new Live", rather than simply a new DAW.
Could be wrong, but this is a very common scenario in all of engineering.
Given the pedigree of the Bitwig devs (Ableton), and the time between Live releases, my pure speculation is:
1) Live is a very mature and established product. The advantage to that is obviously that you have a large customer and engineering base to build on. The disadvantage (and this is what often gives competitors a leg up), is that, as your product matures, it still works with the original paradigm it was designed for, which may make adding certain features and making changes difficult - you must remain mostly compatible with your workflow paradigms, formats, etc, (or you risk throwing a real curve ball to many of your users), and some features may be very difficult to add by design.
2) At some point Ableton needed to determine whether to keep building on Live or create a new product - meaning they replace their existing product or cannibalize (and possibly confuse) their user-base with a second, similar product that they must support and maintain.
3) Good software engineers always want to design something new - there's just not a lot of joy in maintaining/refactoring an older base of code.
4) Ableton made the decision not to pursue a new product or rewrite
5) The Bitwig guys defected in order to pursue their vision - which looks to be a "new Live", rather than simply a new DAW.
Could be wrong, but this is a very common scenario in all of engineering.
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- KVRist
- 328 posts since 27 Apr, 2004 from Always here
@ JoeCat, a very enlightening contribution.
Oddly enough, a few weeks ago I was thinking it was strange that there wasn't an Ableton Live equivalent. Imitation, they say, is the sincerest form of flattery and I have thought that other would have tried something similar.
I'd never even heard of bitwig (crazy name - I like) but I am very excited by this development. Last time I felt like this was when I was waiting for Reason 1.0 to be released.
Oddly enough, a few weeks ago I was thinking it was strange that there wasn't an Ableton Live equivalent. Imitation, they say, is the sincerest form of flattery and I have thought that other would have tried something similar.
I'd never even heard of bitwig (crazy name - I like) but I am very excited by this development. Last time I felt like this was when I was waiting for Reason 1.0 to be released.
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
[DELETED]
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- KVRAF
- 4141 posts since 11 Aug, 2006 from Texas
To be honest I'm more interested in completely new ways of approaching music. Ideas like AudioGL:
and Subcycle:
http://vimeo.com/32096487
Seem much more interesting to me than some sort of Live/Reaper/Studio One mash-up.
I was excited when Bitwig said they were going to re-think the DAW. From the teaser video I saw it looked like more of the same for the most part.
and Subcycle:
http://vimeo.com/32096487
Seem much more interesting to me than some sort of Live/Reaper/Studio One mash-up.
I was excited when Bitwig said they were going to re-think the DAW. From the teaser video I saw it looked like more of the same for the most part.
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- KVRist
- 404 posts since 12 Jan, 2008 from Sweden
I think he meant external hardware - be it synths or effects, not vsts.Branis wrote:From bitwig.com:headquest wrote: + External instrument/effect use32/64 bit VST support
Use your beloved VST plug-ins. In case of a plug-in crash, a protective mechanism prevents the application from crashing and you from losing your work.
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- KVRAF
- 8705 posts since 9 Jan, 2004 from leroyaumeuni
I totally agree.bmrzycki wrote:To be honest I'm more interested in completely new ways of approaching music. Ideas like AudioGL:
and Subcycle:
http://vimeo.com/32096487
Seem much more interesting to me than some sort of Live/Reaper/Studio One mash-up.
I was excited when Bitwig said they were going to re-think the DAW. From the teaser video I saw it looked like more of the same for the most part.
That AudiGL looks amazing.
My other host is Bruce Forsyth
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- KVRian
- 659 posts since 28 Sep, 2004
What I'd like to see is the ability to bounce in place multiple tracks (combined audio and midi) to a single clip with the possibility of exploding the bounce back later. I was hoping to see this in bitwig right off the bat, but I guess not... guess I'll still have to wait for reaper PiP's.Echoes in the Attic wrote:They mention being able to bounce in place, not just on an audio track, but on a midi track too because audio and midi can exist on the same track. The question is, can bounced regions but turned back into midi at a later time (essentially providing freeze functionality)
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- KVRAF
- 1783 posts since 11 Jun, 2005 from Phoenix, Arizona
Impressive! Thanks for posting these.bmrzycki wrote:To be honest I'm more interested in completely new ways of approaching music. Ideas like AudioGL:
and Subcycle:
http://vimeo.com/32096487
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- KVRAF
- 1599 posts since 19 Aug, 2009
bmrzycki wrote:To be honest I'm more interested in completely new ways of approaching music. Ideas like AudioGL:
and Subcycle:
http://vimeo.com/32096487
Seem much more interesting to me than some sort of Live/Reaper/Studio One mash-up.
I was excited when Bitwig said they were going to re-think the DAW. From the teaser video I saw it looked like more of the same for the most part.
Those are quite interesting, not sure I would use them, but very cool indeed.
Personally I also expected more from them, but this seems quite nice and even more interesting than a Live upgrade.
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- KVRAF
- 8519 posts since 7 Apr, 2003
Would be cool if shortcircuit and surge owners got a introductory claes-linkage discount.Bronto Scorpio wrote:I can't even tell you how excited I am
I "followed" this project since Claes first mentioned it way back in the day on the Vember Audio forum (Seems to be a super nice guy by the way).
And this looks seriously promising.
I always found the concept of Ableton Live interesting but the programm itself never really clicked with me. If this is half as streamlined as Claes other products it will be really great.
Much to early to say that yet of course.
Cheers
Dennis
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- KVRAF
- 8519 posts since 7 Apr, 2003
no offense, but kvr would be a dead zone if we followed this ruleTehnik wrote:none of you know *anything* about what they have rights for and what not, so please just stop this clueless discussion. if they were breaking the law, they would probably already be sued by ableton dont you think?
it's 90% speculation and 10% FACT