Yes I totally agree, but I do still want knowledge in this particular field, and awareness. I think it would enable me to grow my hearing skills and understand how to make a decent mix in the case of making OSC tracks for exampleDee.P.Tree wrote:As far as I have read, Internet says that .... when you want to make commercial releases, mastering own music is bad idea.
One Synth Challenge #96: Nabla by Full Bucket (Voting Over)
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- KVRist
- 429 posts since 21 Mar, 2015
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- KVRAF
- 3209 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
I think, phace is talking about mastering and mixing as one thing, Dee. I would make the wild assumption that absolutely ALL our "mastering" is at least 5db away from commercial standards, hahaha! We're absolutely all too loud. I do go at least to -0.3db and try to balance out the spectrum not to overpower any specific section, but most others, who dare to go loud, go loud in highly unprofessional ways, compared to commercial releases I know of.
So, for phase it is important to learn about volume balance, frequency isolation, limiting and compression. There are rules of thumb that help with ratios like kick drum to bass to the rest of a drum set and appropriate levels of other instruments in relation to those. Then it is about understanding why you use a sidechain compression (to lift out a specific instrument or sound over others), which includes understanding when sidechain may not be driven by a kick, but by a lead, depending on the composition.
Also as part of mixing, composition and arrangement are the most important and first priority, before one tries to fix stuff with EQs and other stuff.
One of my favorite things to do with effects is to make sure that they don't muddy up the rest, by lowering aggressive frequencies, most of the time around 400hz. For that you need to use an effects bus, though, to be able to only EQ the effect.
One of the things I love about MuLab is that the modular approach of it makes it so easy to create a nice mixing environment, grouping sound sources and compressing individual groups, which may also get mixed together over another compression path. It's wonderfully easy and intuitive that way.
Anyway, those things are important to learn about so you gain control over them. Search the web for specific tasks rather than the coarse "mastering" a song term. Like, for example, search for mastering kick and bass, or mastering vocals (instead of lead, you know).
So, for phase it is important to learn about volume balance, frequency isolation, limiting and compression. There are rules of thumb that help with ratios like kick drum to bass to the rest of a drum set and appropriate levels of other instruments in relation to those. Then it is about understanding why you use a sidechain compression (to lift out a specific instrument or sound over others), which includes understanding when sidechain may not be driven by a kick, but by a lead, depending on the composition.
Also as part of mixing, composition and arrangement are the most important and first priority, before one tries to fix stuff with EQs and other stuff.
One of my favorite things to do with effects is to make sure that they don't muddy up the rest, by lowering aggressive frequencies, most of the time around 400hz. For that you need to use an effects bus, though, to be able to only EQ the effect.
One of the things I love about MuLab is that the modular approach of it makes it so easy to create a nice mixing environment, grouping sound sources and compressing individual groups, which may also get mixed together over another compression path. It's wonderfully easy and intuitive that way.
Anyway, those things are important to learn about so you gain control over them. Search the web for specific tasks rather than the coarse "mastering" a song term. Like, for example, search for mastering kick and bass, or mastering vocals (instead of lead, you know).
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- DASH Guy
- 8157 posts since 20 Sep, 2001
"commercial releases mastering rules" depends a lot on the genre and target (club, radio, Pop CD, live Rock, Folk, and so on), here we make a bit of everything and nothing! <griN>, With freedom, and that's great,in my book.
BTW I'm wanna quickly say huge thanks here
for the SC comments with love, much appreciated indeed.
BTW I'm wanna quickly say huge thanks here
for the SC comments with love, much appreciated indeed.
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- KVRian
- 725 posts since 11 Mar, 2014 from Netherlands
Guilty ...Taron wrote: So often are we all trying to get great sounding tracks with the least complicated harmonic progressions and constructions. The focus seems to be on a more or less simple musical concept with the most interesting kind of sounds and environment.
But maybe that is what I'm after.
Don't feel like making music like I always did, with complex chords structures etc. Done that already, still like to do it, but I have my piano for that.
I like to keep it simple and catchy, which I find challenging enough.
I feel like geeking out and having fun!
Slowly finding my mix of old-school pop sound with modern influences.
I love those dub-steppy, future bass kind of sounds.
Slowly feel my mixing is getting better. HUGE thanks to you guys.
(I learned new words on this forum, hope I'm using them correctly)
This is an amazing place ...
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- KVRAF
- 3209 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
Ya, you kinda blew me away with this! I had no idea you'd go after this stuff, haha! And you did marvelous!
As with complex chord structures the way I mean...I'd be shocked once more, if you had done already what I'm talking about, but I might be pushing a bit far. I don't know who of us could rival any of the classic compositions, but that's of course far more than just chords.
Anyway, I'm enjoying your confidence!
I understand what you're saying, though, don't get me wrong. My whole spiel about traditional command over music is likely a mood anyway. Sometimes great things come from such moods. Sometimes we dodge bullets when the wiser one ignored them! 
Rock on!
As with complex chord structures the way I mean...I'd be shocked once more, if you had done already what I'm talking about, but I might be pushing a bit far. I don't know who of us could rival any of the classic compositions, but that's of course far more than just chords.
Anyway, I'm enjoying your confidence!
I understand what you're saying, though, don't get me wrong. My whole spiel about traditional command over music is likely a mood anyway. Sometimes great things come from such moods. Sometimes we dodge bullets when the wiser one ignored them!
Rock on!
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- KVRist
- 377 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from Slovakia
Voted!
Im sure I will not have time to enter next OSC #97. Working on something for friend. But I'm sure I can find litlle time to hear your nice tracks (also will vote).
Good luck to all.
Im sure I will not have time to enter next OSC #97. Working on something for friend. But I'm sure I can find litlle time to hear your nice tracks (also will vote).
Good luck to all.
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- KVRian
- 954 posts since 25 May, 2010 from Hessisch Uganda, Germany
Hi all,
amazing tracks... I'm completely blown away by what you did with that lil' Nabla thingy!
You guys are the best.
BTW I just got word from kraftraum: He made a track for Nabla too but had no chance to meet the deadline. No Rotation this time
but check it out:https://soundcloud.com/kraftraum/kraftr ... obahnnacht
Cheers Björn
amazing tracks... I'm completely blown away by what you did with that lil' Nabla thingy!
You guys are the best.
BTW I just got word from kraftraum: He made a track for Nabla too but had no chance to meet the deadline. No Rotation this time
but check it out:https://soundcloud.com/kraftraum/kraftr ... obahnnachtCheers Björn
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BbluntProductions BbluntProductions https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=332797
- Banned
- 58 posts since 17 Jun, 2014
Voted!
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- KVRist
- 325 posts since 25 Aug, 2016
https://soundcloud.com/574x/574x-osc-de ... ry/s-1WDcw
This peaks above 19 LU using only a single Melda MEqualizer (it has a limiter), which is 1 dB quieter than Nosia, Valentino Khan, Flume <insert giant list of top selling electronic artists>.
Attempting an osc track with a single plugin, I was reminded that my main goal is to practice making the best music I can, which means adapting to current industry standard technique.
Mixing engineering (abridged): Clearly combining all elements by emphasizing the desirable qualities of each instrument within the context of a piece of music ). 
, so feel free to chime in. You can see similar methods used by these excellent producer-sound designers who make videos demonstrating modern digital production technique:
This peaks above 19 LU using only a single Melda MEqualizer (it has a limiter), which is 1 dB quieter than Nosia, Valentino Khan, Flume <insert giant list of top selling electronic artists
>. Attempting an osc track with a single plugin, I was reminded that my main goal is to practice making the best music I can, which means adapting to current industry standard technique.
Mixing engineering (abridged
): Clearly combining all elements by emphasizing the desirable qualities of each instrument within the context of a piece of music - adjusting volume
- adjusting pan
- managing stereo width (see below)
- managing dynamic range (with compression so that elements are consistently heard, including transient management with fast attack and release compression settings)
- filtering out conflicting frequencies (that they have with other instruments, by using an equalizer)
- busing similar frequencies to compress
- using fx buses (in Reaper you can just put fx like reverb/comp on a blank track and drag the tracks underneath and into the folder track. This cleans up a muddy mix caused by multiple reverbs or other fx).
). - Stereo field management (high pass the sub and boost what you want with MEqualizer, changed from L+R to Side, or use JS: Stereo Field Manipulator width - In Reaper, if you click the master track mono button, your track should still have most of it's power)
- Heavy multiband compression (ReaXcomp, OTT) in parallel by lowering the mix depth usually between 15-40%
- Harmonic excitment /enhancment/waveshaping/soft clipping/saturation (this is frequency specific -I'll use any handy bass enhancer and treble enhancer and/or Voxengo GEQ)
- EQ (often removing extreme highs and lows and scooping low mids)
- Peak limiting/maximizing/clipping (easy with Limiter No6 turning off all modules but the ISP , or Aradaz Maximizer in Fast mode for more punch, TLs Maximizer for a smoother sound, or Reaper JS: Event Horizon for clippng).
Measuring ISP (to set limiter output) and Loudness is easy with Youlean Loudness Meter (click the gear and select True Peak) or Hofa 4U meter (clicking on the numbers resets them, right clicking on the meter allows you options to detect ISP and select the EBU Scale LU 18). You won't be hearing anything at ultra music festival that isn't peaking above 16 LU, although that's 1-2 dB louder than if they had used TP limiting.
, so feel free to chime in. You can see similar methods used by these excellent producer-sound designers who make videos demonstrating modern digital production technique: - Zen World (for example, his videos like "how to layer basslines" cover mixing & he has great start-to-finish videos)
- SeamlessR
- Sounds by Sancus
- Mr. Bill
- Tom Cosm
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- KVRist
- 396 posts since 7 Dec, 2006 from Richmond, VA, USA
Voted.
Some of those tracks are really too compressed and maximized too hot in my opinion. Makes comparing them rather difficult. I think we are at a place where the louder ones do better even if a quieter track is mixed better (yes I know I can adjust the volume). I'd like to see a requirement that loudness falls within a range.
Some of those tracks are really too compressed and maximized too hot in my opinion. Makes comparing them rather difficult. I think we are at a place where the louder ones do better even if a quieter track is mixed better (yes I know I can adjust the volume). I'd like to see a requirement that loudness falls within a range.
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- KVRist
- 379 posts since 29 Jul, 2013 from Toronto
Voted.
Funny seeing bh9090's complaint about excessive track loudness right after 574x's post about how to achieve Ultra-level loudness. BH, I recommend just taking off points for loud tracks, and leaving a corresponding comment. OSC really doesn't need more rules. 574x actually has the right idea, practicing commercial-style mastering on his track from a previous OSC (sounds good here, BTW).
Funny seeing bh9090's complaint about excessive track loudness right after 574x's post about how to achieve Ultra-level loudness. BH, I recommend just taking off points for loud tracks, and leaving a corresponding comment. OSC really doesn't need more rules. 574x actually has the right idea, practicing commercial-style mastering on his track from a previous OSC (sounds good here, BTW).
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- KVRist
- 223 posts since 15 May, 2016 from Vienna
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- KVRian
- 1294 posts since 9 Jan, 2013 from morf
Vote made
Man is least himself when he talks in the first person. Give him a mask, and he'll show you his true face
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- KVRist
- 122 posts since 18 Jan, 2010 from Germany
V - O - T - E - D
Dear Nabla,
first of all I have to apologize for my ignorant behaviour when browsing full bucket music's site!
Impressed by all your colorful brothers and sisters, these blooos and klooos and schmooos, I overlooked your unpretentious and elegant grey appearance: "Oh, a string synth emulation. What should I do with that?"
But: Asche auf mein Haupt!
Forced to install your .dll to take part in this challenge, I came to know your inner values better. And now I must say: You are very underrated!
You can tell your master Björn, that I'm not the only one, who was surprised at your capabilities. Listen to the entries: You are able to do great sounds!
I hope, you accept my excuse and I will promise to take a closer look before judging a "lil thingy".
Greetings from
Erich aka Rockingricky
Dear Nabla,
first of all I have to apologize for my ignorant behaviour when browsing full bucket music's site!
Impressed by all your colorful brothers and sisters, these blooos and klooos and schmooos, I overlooked your unpretentious and elegant grey appearance: "Oh, a string synth emulation. What should I do with that?"
But: Asche auf mein Haupt!
Forced to install your .dll to take part in this challenge, I came to know your inner values better. And now I must say: You are very underrated!
You can tell your master Björn, that I'm not the only one, who was surprised at your capabilities. Listen to the entries: You are able to do great sounds!
I hope, you accept my excuse and I will promise to take a closer look before judging a "lil thingy".
Greetings from
Erich aka Rockingricky