KVR Audio

fold4 · Post by **fold4** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:03 am

wagtunes wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:37 am
gentleclockdivider wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:13 amSo all the experts in circuit emulation behaviour and developers like u-he , cytomic , xils et.. have been lying in our face all the time .
Let's burn them

And thank you for letting us know that ''emulated analog'' is digital .
Expert
Forgive him, for he knows not what he says.

They have not been lying to you. They've been selling you emulations designed to act like specific analog hardware. Written in code. On a computer.

Anything coded on a computer is digital by definition. There's no physical analog circuitry involved.

The point was to demonstrate that there is no inherent difference between what an emulated plugin and a non-emulated plugin can achieve. It's all code.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:07 am

Oh no it's not.

Oh yes it is.

Oh no it's not.

Oh ... etc.

fold4 · Post by **fold4** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:17 am

Ha ha. Yes, that does tend to be the way.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:18 am

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:50 am

fold4 wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:03 am The point was to demonstrate that there is no inherent difference between what an emulated plugin and a non-emulated plugin can achieve. It's all code.

The equations are different. Commonly digital synths use abstract models for oscillators, filters, envelopes etc. They use delays, z-transforms, phase counters, polynoms. But synths which are based on analogue modelling use equations and units of real world physical means, such as Ohm's law, Kirchhoff's law, resistance, capacitance, transconductance. Therefore the equations differ and therefore the result sounds different.

While you are right that it's all code, surely "being code" is not a measure of any quality at all. Code can be made to sound bad and code can be made to sound good. Hence, "being code" itself means nothing.

The equations however mean everything. Take a synthesizer which is built using the same equations and principles which engineers use to create the electronics of an analogue hardware synthesizer: It should be common sense that there's a better chance at behaving & sounding similar than using equations and maths which have only abstract meanings.

PatchAdamz · Post by **PatchAdamz** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:25 am

Urs wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:50 am
fold4 wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:03 am The point was to demonstrate that there is no inherent difference between what an emulated plugin and a non-emulated plugin can achieve. It's all code.

The equations however mean everything. Take a synthesizer which is built using the same equations and principles which engineers use to create the electronics of an analogue hardware synthesizer: It should be common sense that there's a better chance at behaving & sounding similar than using equations and maths which have only abstract meanings.

Art versus science, or the art of science.

fold4 · Post by **fold4** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:32 am

Urs wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:50 am
fold4 wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:03 am The point was to demonstrate that there is no inherent difference between what an emulated plugin and a non-emulated plugin can achieve. It's all code.
The equations are different.

...snip...

While you are right that it's all code, surely "being code" is not a measure of any quality at all. Code can be made to sound bad and code can be made to sound good. Hence, "being code" itself means nothing.

We are in agreement here. But "the results sound different" and "digital is cold/thin/lifeless" are not the same thing.

The equations however mean everything. Take a synthesizer which is built using the same equations and principles which engineers use to create the electronics of an analogue hardware synthesizer: It should be common sense that there's a better chance at behaving & sounding similar than using equations and maths which have only abstract meanings.

When developed for and put into practice with intention to create sound they no longer have only abstract meanings.
When developed for and put into practice with intention to create sound that is fat and alive, it can be done.

I was never arguing which sounded most like analog.

I don't think you actually disagree with me on my basic premise, considering

Code can be made to sound bad and code can be made to sound good

which was exactly my point. If a digital synth is lacking it's because of how it was coded, not because it is digital.

Maybe you do but nothing you wrote sounds like it. Some people will of course think you do and assume I am wrong and digital is cold and lifeless. Oh well. It's the internet. What are you gonna do?

fold4 · Post by **fold4** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:34 am

PatchAdamz wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:25 amArt versus science, or the art of science.

It's all art. Also all science. No vs.

The art of science.
The science of art.

We can create music the way we do because people used science to build instruments and later design electronic components and new ways of making sound.

We can draw and paint because people used science to create the tools and pigments.

And so on...

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:44 am

Sometimes these threads f**king suck.

Robmobius · Post by **Robmobius** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:57 am

masterhiggins wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:44 am Sometimes these threads f**king suck.

You're not wrong...

fold4 · Post by **fold4** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:58 am

I know. We could all be complaining about how much it will likely cost instead, which is so much better

.

It would be nice if people could just talk about the synth and not what it costs or whether it's better because it's an emulation or how it compares to the hardware. Just talk about the actual product. I include myself in the culprits. Mea culpa.

So I'll do my best to shut up now. My apologies to all. I'm unsubbing from the thread to help resist temptation. As you were.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:45 am

I don't want to demo something I don't know the price of. That would be like buying a prostitute a drink in Hamburg Reeperbahn. The beer could end up costing you 1,000 EURO or something. If you don't pay up you get beaten up.

FapFilter · Post by **FapFilter** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:04 am

It has been stated in an officially approved announcement on Gearslutz and other sites that the intro offer will be $179 and $229 the regular price tag as has been stated on here several times aswell.

You never know when this prosti... product is going on one of it's big sales though. Might happen sooner than later

You can demo it any time you like though, noone is forcing you to buy it, escpecially in a market which is already flooded with excellent options.

I actually like it, will most likely getting it at some point as an addition to my existing arsenal. That's not going to happen at it's current pricing though.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:07 am

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:29 am

Aloysius wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:45 am I don't want to demo something I don't know the price of. That would be like buying a prostitute a drink in Hamburg Reeperbahn. The beer could end up costing you 1,000 EURO or something. If you don't pay up you get beaten up.

What are the expert views on this? I didn't know that.
But then I've never been to Hamburg either

.

bx_oberhausen from Plugin Alliance has landed