A rise of "Page 22" (post by Jan) rubbish in the Cafe?

[vurt]

meeting new people

[Katelyn]

Can we talk about 'good' music then? I mean, poking into the Cafe' I don't think I've seen too many people with less than a hundred posts but I only clicked 2 or 3 that had genres I was interested in.

My point being, I mean, I dunno, but it seems this thread has kind of said all there is to say about it. If people want a post limit I think 10 or 15 is reasonable to suggest, I don't get why it wouldbe as high as 100 or something like that. That or make it the same amount as you need to get a signature which is a similar number.

[Frantz]

Can we talk about 'good' music then?

You mean like "Friday" by Rebacca Black or "Hamburger Lady" by Throbbing Gristle? What about these songs should we discuss?

If people want a post limit I think 10 or 15 is reasonable to suggest

Great idea. Once you hit the 10 post limit, your account gets locked out. Definitely will cut down on spam.

[farlukar]

I'd say set it to 5000 posts, that ought to keep out the riffraff.

[elassi]

We definately need a poll.

Limited to members who have a post count between 500 and 1500. Thus we fight noobism as well as elitism.

[Frantz]

Yes, let's have a poll. It should be open to only those elite members with 2700-2800 posts.

If you posted less, you don't qualify because you're a n00b. If you posted more, you're a spammer.

[trimph1]

Good!!

[Hink]

Can we talk about 'good' music then?

You mean like "Friday" by Rebacca Black or "Hamburger Lady" by Throbbing Gristle? What about these songs should we discuss?

If people want a post limit I think 10 or 15 is reasonable to suggest

Great idea. Once you hit the 10 post limit, your account gets locked out. Definitely will cut down on spam.

were you born a better artist than Rebecca Black? Right there is an issue that bugs me. It's easy for a bunch of people to take shots at her online and sure it became a worldwide joke because she wasn't that good. I am quite thankful when kids in jr high school picked on me for being a very bad trumpet player I didn't get bullied into giving up. I'm really glad when I gave up the trumpet and picked up the guitar I didn't listen to the naysayers telling me I would suck at that too.

It's not they were wrong, they were spot on. When I was in jr high, high school and really well beyond I wasn't good at all. Was I suppose to be? Should people have shined me on? I dont know about you but I learn from my mistakes, I learn from being wrong and like I said earlier, if music wasn't challenging for me I would have given up.

Sure, the point of RB is she should not have posted her music online until she was more proficient. I have a 19 year old daughter, she sings things and posts them online like all her peers and tbh it lacks quality and I wouldn't post it if it were me. But that's today's generation and really it shows me something when they open themselves for attacks from their peers and the rest of the world. Whether her music was good or bad she had just as much right to post a song as you or I. She's a child and people build up their egos by picking on her music.

Why you felt the need to bring it up here is beyond me, someone makes a suggestion that we talk about good music and you feel the need to take another shot at a child? That seems very odd to me.

It also seems odd to me that we keep having this need to think we are the ultimate judges of what is good and bad. You said in a post that you were just explaining to me that you are going to find a lot of music that you wont like in the cafe...do you really think you need to explain that to me? I'm 55 years old, I have been playing music starting with the trumpet since I was 8 or 9 and I have spent a lifetime of going from one source to another weeding through music (from AM radio to the internet) knowing that only a very small percentage I will care for.

When I was young, very insecure about my own music and really clueless I did the same thing. If I didn't like it it sucked, sadly probably over 50% of the time I was saying so to fit in with my peers. Your first response to me when I suggested sub forums was not everyone wants their music pigeonholed, what do you call what you just did with RB? You dont want to label your music but you have the right to label others? And worse you go after a child?

I take my hat off to her tbh, she can do anything imho because she weathered the most brutal criticism in the world, became a laughing stock and people like yourself are still taking shots at her? IMO she rose above all the haters and that takes strength, so if she were my daughter I would be proud of her just for that. If I take your advice of dropping the needle, I would have listened to about 10 seconds of the song and never thought about it again. I surely wouldn't have wasted much time on joining the world bashing her, that would be a serious waste of time for me and really would not have much benefit for myself or her.

I think the attitude displayed by people all over the world when it comes to her and thousands of others is a sad statement. If she had fun, good on her...I mean she was a kid and that's what being a kid is all about. If we had the internet when I was a kid I am not sure I would not have done similar. As it was I dressed up, put on my guitar, danced around faking playing to songs I couldn't play in my little fantasy world and I suspect many people here did the exact same thing. But then I grew up and tbh I think those silly, childish moments helped keep my drive strong until the day I could play those songs. She could blossom into something amazing, but let's pigeonhole her when she is a child and deny her the right to grow (which imo is exactly what you did by bringing her into this conversation like two or three years later)

So maybe her music wasn't good by your standards (tbh not by mine either), but she put it out there. What happened last night between your post telling me you dont like the use of the word rubbish either and this post? The bottom line is you can shut off the music anytime you like, whether it be hers, mine or even your own...you know like you said about dropping the needle.

I still like the quote "if the only birds in the woods that sang were the ones that sang best, the woods would be a very quiet place"

[Hink]

I'm not a fan of how the thread is titled and the use of the word rubbish,

Then again, what would the turn out of responses have been to this thread if I had titled it differently? I have posted similar whiny, complaining threads before that quickly sunk to the bottom with little response.
The "(probably)" part is there to say, judging based on the content of the titles of the threads in the cafe, I made a quick assumption that the tracks are rubbish. Titles like, "Check my new phat beatz" and "Will.i.am Remix - Super Pro" and "Remix - More Bass" and stuff like that.

While I agree there should be subforums for collective music domains, I think spreading all of the music out into a bunch of different genres can get messy. I think ideally the best way was if the genre tag in the title was enforced a little more strictly (and a post limit, as already discussed). I always, ALWAYS, try my best to give people an idea of what to expect from the music posted in my posted thread (i.e.) and while I'm not always the best at figuring out what tag to use, I try my best!
I have used nearly the exact same title format...almost since I started posting to KVR (aside from - maybe - my first couple of posts). Artist - Track Title [Genre]

I just want to say that I know I come off as a completely rude tosser in my OP, but I'm not saying "f*ck all that new-age shit. F*ck all those new kids who don't know a DAMN thing about music. F*ck everyone except people who have been apart of KVR at a minimum for the length of time I have been a member" because that would just be dumb. I like listening to artists who do their first song: Yeah it's not something I would take with me on the road, but if the poster becomes a regular of KVR, I get to watch how their music grows from there.
And there are some artists who post to KVR who may write a song in a boring ol' EDM genre: but you know what? Just because most music posted in that genre tend to be trite, doesn't mean someone can't do something interesting in that genre. Hell, I have done some commercial-esque style music myself, I would be a hypocrite if I said I didn't. But I know what I DON'T like about commercial-esque music, so I know how to avoid it and make something fresh out of it. Obviously to me, it's a song I enjoy, but by no means am I saying it's now superior to all the other commercial-esque tracks now.
I guess it more comes back to what someone else had mentioned previously in the thread; how it more comes down to the personality of the artist, rather than the content of their post. On this forum, I would rather listen to a persons music who is a regular, someone who also engages the community, rather than someone who is just marketing themselves and nothing else.

I think you read too much into my post, I dont like the word rubbish or others like it. It might not be appealing but if one learns from it it's not rubbish imo and that's what posting in the cafe should also be about...supporting each other which might mean saying that song i not good, but there are more tactful ways of putting it. The rest of your post I dont really disagree with at all

[Frantz]

were you born a better artist than Rebecca Black? Right there is an issue that bugs me. It's easy for a bunch of people to take shots at her online and sure it became a worldwide joke because she wasn't that good.

Overreact much? I actually enjoy "Friday" for what it is. "Hamburger Lady" is great too IMO. I was attempting to point out the absurdity of determining what is 'good' music.

[Hink]

were you born a better artist than Rebecca Black? Right there is an issue that bugs me. It's easy for a bunch of people to take shots at her online and sure it became a worldwide joke because she wasn't that good.

Overreact much? I actually enjoy "Friday" for what it is. "Hamburger Lady" is great too IMO. I was attempting to point out the absurdity of determining what is 'good' music.

well than I owe you an apology as it seems we are on the same page. I guess it's because there was such a mega-long thread here attacking her and I assumed you were doing the same..my bad

[Frantz]

well than I owe you an apology as it seems we are on the same page.

No apology necessary. We're cool.

[Sendy]

And what's so bad if there are beginners? Should only people with > 50 years of music experience be allowed to post their songs? Should we make a retirement home out of KVR?

Which right do I have only to listen to songs that I like? Sometimes I listen to a song I don't like, and I can learn WHY I don't like it. There's always something to learn...

Whenever I want to listen to better known musicians, I listen to Spotify, not to KVR...

I love beginners. I love beginner music. They have a fresh outlook and a vitality that can be totally awe inspiring. Like the jungle tracks coming out in the early 90's, made by people with no music theory or engineering knowledge whatsoever - they were making it up as they went along, and it was mesmerising despite the flaws.

Flaws don't really even bother me that much. The mix could be slightly better? Who gives a shit? If the music is good enough, nobody will even care unless the mix is terrible or painful. Bring the beginners on, I love explaining synthesis stuff to them and being inspired by their new found passion.

Thing is, we all know, these kinds of beginners aren't the bone of contention within this thread. They are rare, because for all of this stuff to come alive, the beginner needs the right motivation. And no - wanting to make money doesn't negate that, unless it's the sole motivation.

This isn't even about beginners or skill levels, because there are some very talented engineers/programmers who still seem hellbent on recreating that one archetypal bigroom/trap/dubstep tune. These people have created a whole market where staying ahead of the game and sounding "modern" means buying (or more likely, pirating) the latest "must have" glitch effects that are only put into the music to prove how "modern" it is.

[ghettosynth]

As it was I dressed up, put on my guitar, danced around faking playing to songs I couldn't play in my little fantasy world and I suspect many people here did the exact same thing. But then I grew up and tbh I think those silly, childish moments helped keep my drive strong until the day I could play those songs.

I really like your honesty Hink. Knowing something about a person, or connecting to the story behind a song, track, or piece, to me, impacts my desire to connect with them musically somehow. That could just be talking about music, listening to their music, or sometimes collaborating.

It's not about good or bad so much for me, as it is about it just being a sea of connectionless noise. I don't mean that the music is noise, I mean that the written signal in the cafe that is trying to elicit a response is, again, to me, largely noise. That said, I can't tolerate the noise so the baby gets flushed out with the bathwater. In fact, I find it a bit funny that the people who's music I'd be interested in hearing, seldom post, but I imagine that they do sometimes, and I miss it because I can't stomach the cafe being turned on. I read KVR using the latest posts feature, and I don't want to see so much noise that I miss the posts that interest me.

Here's a positive suggestion, and if it already exists and I'm just unaware, by all means, let me know. I've made it no secret that I make heavy use of the "foe" feature, it really makes KVR better for me. I don't make use of the "friend" feature though because I can't see much benefit. It seems like a pointless attempt at creating "social features" without much thought or direction. Again, maybe I'm just missing what it's about, so please, school me if I am.

Here's what I'd like to see. I would like to get a PM from the system whenever someone on my "friend" list creates a thread in the cafe. I don't want a PM for every thread on the forums, or every post to the cafe, or, heaven forbid every post that they make, that would also be pointless, just the initial thread in the cafe. The cafe is somewhat different than other forums and if the point of the cafe is to encourage interaction and engagement with member's music, then this is a solution that facilitates that on member's terms and doesn't exclude anyone. If this feature were implemented then I would be able to build a list of members whose music I'd be willing to spend some time listening to and giving feedback. The PM should just be a simple message stating "Member <X> on your friend list has create a new topic in the Music Cafe. <link to topic>"

With this feature, I would only give feedback to people who make it to my "friend" list, consequently, not that my feedback has any particular value, but, if you want it, you will have to engage me enough first to get on my friend list. This would organically solve the problem of engagement for people who think like I do. The cafe would remain off for me, and yet I would still respond to the many posters whom I've felt that I've come to know a little bit.

YMMV.

[hibidy]

Why is it when I try and listen to peoples soundcloud stuff it goes for about 20 seconds and then just STOPS

Anyone else have this?

Oh yeah, amidst all the flailing, I'm trying to listen more to cafe stuff. I really like the electronic stuff I'm hearing. It's inspiring.