Bitwig Studio 1.2 BETA 4

[goatgirl]

Can we make custom tags? It looks like we can but it doesn't works....

Custom tags work, just make sure there is a space after each tag name you create.

Edit: This behaviour has been reported as its a silly requirement for the last tag.

Oh ...I was testing it with only one tag so I never noticed that once we use the spacebar the tag is created...

thanx

Edit: yeah this is not that much annoying having to hit the spacebar but this is quite silly...

Am I missing something here? You can just hit the Enter/Return key as well which will create the tag and leave it ready to enter a new one.

What am I missing?

Mike

Even with enter/return it is still not very obvious that is how it works. I'd much prefer any text remaining in the typing area to be converted to a tag. In fact I never tried enter/return key, as I would assume that would act as a shortcut to the ok button, as in most dialogue boxes.

[TeotiGraphix]

Can we make custom tags? It looks like we can but it doesn't works....

Custom tags work, just make sure there is a space after each tag name you create.

Edit: This behaviour has been reported as its a silly requirement for the last tag.

Oh ...I was testing it with only one tag so I never noticed that once we use the spacebar the tag is created...

thanx

Edit: yeah this is not that much annoying having to hit the spacebar but this is quite silly...

Am I missing something here? You can just hit the Enter/Return key as well which will create the tag and leave it ready to enter a new one.

What am I missing?

Mike

Even with enter/return it is still not very obvious that is how it works. I'd much prefer any text remaining in the typing area to be converted to a tag. In fact I never tried enter/return key, as I would assume that would act as a shortcut to the ok button, as in most dialogue boxes.

Ok well this is definitively a thought process thing because I intuitively see explicit creation of a tag.

The only draw back to your solution is that I type asd [space] fun.

Now I have asd and fun as tags I guess you are saying that I now have to backspace fun to get rid of the tag that I just created(unintentionally) or press x to kill it.

Whereas now, I can just leave it and it wasn't added.

But I digress, this is a good example of there is no real nice UX way that this could be implemented in a dialog such as the one Bitwig created.

I know a lot of forms that have more than just text inputs handle the enter key differently then just text inputs that use the ok/submit as the default submission button. That is why I figured I could press enter, Bitwig handles the tab key kind of weird in their UI also.

Like in the Browser, I would have thought the Tab key would move pages from Devices, Presets, Samples etc. but it doesn't. There is some other combination to do that.

Mike

[goatgirl]

Can we make custom tags? It looks like we can but it doesn't works....

Custom tags work, just make sure there is a space after each tag name you create.

Edit: This behaviour has been reported as its a silly requirement for the last tag.

Oh ...I was testing it with only one tag so I never noticed that once we use the spacebar the tag is created...

thanx

Edit: yeah this is not that much annoying having to hit the spacebar but this is quite silly...

Am I missing something here? You can just hit the Enter/Return key as well which will create the tag and leave it ready to enter a new one.

What am I missing?

Mike

Even with enter/return it is still not very obvious that is how it works. I'd much prefer any text remaining in the typing area to be converted to a tag. In fact I never tried enter/return key, as I would assume that would act as a shortcut to the ok button, as in most dialogue boxes.

Ok well this is definitively a thought process thing because I intuitively see explicit creation of a tag.

The only draw back to your solution is that I type asd [space] fun.

Now I have asd and fun as tags I guess you are saying that I now have to backspace fun to get rid of the tag that I just created(unintentionally) or press x to kill it.

Whereas now, I can just leave it and it wasn't added.

You could just not write fun in the first place.

But I digress, this is a good example of there is no real nice UX way that this could be implemented in a dialog such as the one Bitwig created.

I know a lot of forms that have more than just text inputs handle the enter key differently then just text inputs that use the ok/submit as the default submission button. That is why I figured I could press enter, Bitwig handles the tab key kind of weird in their UI also.

Like in the Browser, I would have thought the Tab key would move pages from Devices, Presets, Samples etc. but it doesn't. There is some other combination to do that.

Mike

However you dress it up, the current implementation is silly. Sure it currently benefits people who like to add random words to the tag line that can get ignored. However, as others have found out, it is easy to create a preset and enter a tag name for it not to be recognised. I would much prefer that the text be recognised, than to find that the last x numbers of presets I have made have missing tags.

[TeotiGraphix]

However you dress it up, the current implementation is silly. Sure it currently benefits people who like to add random words to the tag line that can get ignored. However, as others have found out, it is easy to create a preset and enter a tag name for it not to be recognised. I would much prefer that the text be recognised, than to find that the last x numbers of presets I have made have missing tags.

I didn't know I was dressing up but, I am being devils advocate.

I was more expressing how I used it intuitively, the problem is I am a programmer and maybe subconsciously understand somethings that others might not. Seeing the X and rounded rectangle around real existing tags meant to me that text that was not inside that container was still just text.

Mike

[shadiradio]

Just wanted to say that using the 1.2 beta for sound design is such a joy so far. I can't go back after using the new browser (it's just light years faster if you know what you want), and group tracks obviously make organization and mixing a breeze.

If we can get clip fade handles (and if these can be applied globally to a group meta clip), that would just complete the ultra-fast workflow. The thing is, everything is already available for this behind the scenes. You can add a multiplicative volume envelope to any clip. This is ultra tedious though and the only thing (to me) that feels incredibly slow in BWS. When you are sound designing (especially to picture) you are constantly adjusting fades and moving things around. Clip fade handles can simply manipulate the same tech used for multiplicative mixer volume envelopes. The beauty of that is that you could also apply them to MIDI clips. I can't think of a DAW that lets you add clip fades to MIDI clips - but I think BWS can do it relatively easily.

OK that was a big tangent. There are bugs, but 1.1 feels sort of empty after using 1.2

[goatgirl]

However you dress it up, the current implementation is silly. Sure it currently benefits people who like to add random words to the tag line that can get ignored. However, as others have found out, it is easy to create a preset and enter a tag name for it not to be recognised. I would much prefer that the text be recognised, than to find that the last x numbers of presets I have made have missing tags.

I didn't know I was dressing up but, I am being devils advocate.

I was more expressing how I used it intuitively, the problem is I am a programmer and maybe subconsciously understand somethings that others might not. Seeing the X and rounded rectangle around real existing tags meant to me that text that was not inside that container was still just text.

Mike

You don't see the rounded rectangle with the x if you are only adding 1 tag and dont hit space/return. As such it is far from obvious, even psychics let alone programmers may not realise. I honestly can't think of a reason not to change unless you really can't stop yourself adding random words to every tag line

Anyway, I sent a note to Bitwig. Hopefully they see sense in changing it one way or another. Either by creating tags from text without the space/return or at least make it obvious that is what is required.

[TeotiGraphix]

However you dress it up, the current implementation is silly. Sure it currently benefits people who like to add random words to the tag line that can get ignored. However, as others have found out, it is easy to create a preset and enter a tag name for it not to be recognised. I would much prefer that the text be recognised, than to find that the last x numbers of presets I have made have missing tags.

I didn't know I was dressing up but, I am being devils advocate.

I was more expressing how I used it intuitively, the problem is I am a programmer and maybe subconsciously understand somethings that others might not. Seeing the X and rounded rectangle around real existing tags meant to me that text that was not inside that container was still just text.

Mike

You don't see the rounded rectangle with the x if you are only adding 1 tag and dont hit space/return. As such it is far from obvious, even psychics let alone programmers may not realise. I honestly can't think of a reason not to change unless you really can't stop yourself adding random words to every tag line

Anyway, I sent a note to Bitwig. Hopefully they see sense in changing it one way or another. Either by creating tags from text without the space/return or at least make it obvious that is what is required.

Ok, you got me because I didn't think "you could add" a tag without pressing enter. This is what I am saying I didn't understand this from when you started talking about it.

I can see my disconnect now, I assumed I HAD to create the rect with x for it to be saved with the preset. (thus my comment about seeing something else, being psychic and dressing up, saying random things that make no sense).

I add random things to all my code. It makes for a good design.

Mike

[owensands]

Hi.

I'm getting some weird behavior with Beta 4.

You sure you don't have your routings for you interface sending the all those ins to the same asio inputs? I know on my RME I can do that np. You say that in other DAWs its setup right so im guessing maybe not. Might be an issue with the new audio rewrite they did. I know I was having issues at first with my 24 outs but I only use 4 ins so maybe someone with as many inputs as you is finding an issue when you have loads of inputs.

Hi Owen. Yes I am sure I am not doing that. The synths fire and the sound comes in the various inputs, and they are routed and meter in CueMix (Motu's audio interface software) correctly. It's as if the right things are happening behind the scenes; the fail seems to be at the drop down selection. Really weird. Thanks.

yeah make sure you send this report to beta@bitwig.com. It sounds like you may have uncovered another issue with the audio engine piece that interfaces with user's sound cards that they reworked for 1.2.

[c-wave]

You don't see the rounded rectangle with the x if you are only adding 1 tag and dont hit space/return. As such it is far from obvious, even psychics let alone programmers may not realise. I honestly can't think of a reason not to change unless you really can't stop yourself adding random words to every tag line

Anyway, I sent a note to Bitwig. Hopefully they see sense in changing it one way or another. Either by creating tags from text without the space/return or at least make it obvious that is what is required.

I think it should be relatively easy for the devs, and sensible, to add a return button (an icon like a reversed L with an arrow!) at the end of the text entry field with grayed out text in the field that says to use that button after each tag entry.
EDIT: would appreciate a snapshot to know what you're talking about.. for us unlucky non-prime members

[goatgirl]

You don't see the rounded rectangle with the x if you are only adding 1 tag and dont hit space/return. As such it is far from obvious, even psychics let alone programmers may not realise. I honestly can't think of a reason not to change unless you really can't stop yourself adding random words to every tag line

Anyway, I sent a note to Bitwig. Hopefully they see sense in changing it one way or another. Either by creating tags from text without the space/return or at least make it obvious that is what is required.

I think it should be relatively easy for the devs, and sensible, to add a return button (an icon like a reversed L with an arrow!) at the end of the text entry field with grayed out text in the field that says to use that button after each tag entry.
EDIT: would appreciate a snapshot to know what you're talking about.. for us unlucky non-prime members

Having extra icons and instructions may be more confusing. Tags are created automatically as you type, as long as there is a trailing space. Also the tags line fills when you select the pre-made tags from below. In these cases the return key is not required.

tag.png

The image shows the tags line after entering 'red green'.

I still prefer the idea of text being converted to a tag when pressing the ok button. In the above image, 'green' would also become a tag instead of being lost.

[c-wave]

You don't see the rounded rectangle with the x if you are only adding 1 tag and dont hit space/return. As such it is far from obvious, even psychics let alone programmers may not realise. I honestly can't think of a reason not to change unless you really can't stop yourself adding random words to every tag line

Anyway, I sent a note to Bitwig. Hopefully they see sense in changing it one way or another. Either by creating tags from text without the space/return or at least make it obvious that is what is required.

I think it should be relatively easy for the devs, and sensible, to add a return button (an icon like a reversed L with an arrow!) at the end of the text entry field with grayed out text in the field that says to use that button after each tag entry.
EDIT: would appreciate a snapshot to know what you're talking about.. for us unlucky non-prime members

Having extra icons and instructions may be more confusing. Tags are created automatically as you type, as long as there is a trailing space. Also the tags line fills when you select the pre-made tags from below. In these cases the return key is not required.

tag.png

The image shows the tags line after entering 'red green'.

I still prefer the idea of text being converted to a tag when pressing the ok button. In the above image, 'green' would also become a tag instead of being lost.

Here is an idea (this is a favourite subject for me - U/X - ) but I hope I am not wasting anybody's time:
Microsoft solved a similar situation, in Windows early on, with an additional "Apply" button, which you can press on as much as you want without exiting the dialog box; so it's like OK in that it applies the entry(s) but doesn't exit the dialog box.

[goatgirl]

You don't see the rounded rectangle with the x if you are only adding 1 tag and dont hit space/return. As such it is far from obvious, even psychics let alone programmers may not realise. I honestly can't think of a reason not to change unless you really can't stop yourself adding random words to every tag line

Anyway, I sent a note to Bitwig. Hopefully they see sense in changing it one way or another. Either by creating tags from text without the space/return or at least make it obvious that is what is required.

I think it should be relatively easy for the devs, and sensible, to add a return button (an icon like a reversed L with an arrow!) at the end of the text entry field with grayed out text in the field that says to use that button after each tag entry.
EDIT: would appreciate a snapshot to know what you're talking about.. for us unlucky non-prime members

Having extra icons and instructions may be more confusing. Tags are created automatically as you type, as long as there is a trailing space. Also the tags line fills when you select the pre-made tags from below. In these cases the return key is not required.

tag.png

The image shows the tags line after entering 'red green'.

I still prefer the idea of text being converted to a tag when pressing the ok button. In the above image, 'green' would also become a tag instead of being lost.

Here is an idea (this is a favourite subject for me - U/X - ) but I hope I am not wasting anybody's time:
Microsoft solved a similar situation, in Windows early on, with an additional "Apply" button, which you can press on as much as you want without exiting the dialog box; so it's like OK in that it applies the entry(s) but doesn't exit the dialog box.

I much prefer the google docs method where you don't lose words you already typed. Apply is so 1990's.

[c-wave]

I much prefer the google docs method where you don't lose words you already typed. Apply is so 1990's.

I think this is different; what I mean is that you can have it in google's doc style where the text is not lost inside the field, but the "Apply" or its equivalent enters the text into the database (as "tags") only when YOU want it to.. otherwise any text entered into the field goes there directly.

[TeotiGraphix]

Apply is so 1990's.

Wow..

[goatgirl]

I much prefer the google docs method where you don't lose words you already typed. Apply is so 1990's.

I think this is different; what I mean is that you can have it in google's doc style where the text is not lost inside the field, but the "Apply" or its equivalent enters the text into the database (as "tags") only when YOU want it to.. otherwise any text entered into the field goes there directly.

Every time I enter a word in the tags field I want it as a tag. I'm not writing something then deciding if it looks good. An apply button doesnt prevent word/tags from being lost, it is just a way of requesting extra action from the user by pressing 'apply' or hitting space/return.

In fact thinking about it, I'd much prefer a smarter input, so that as I type, the software is already making a tag by putting a tag graphic around it. Then there would be no room for misunderstanding.

Though I'd be happy with my previous suggestion of tagging the last word when pressing OK. Either way, it keeps the interface clean, catches the problem when people forget to hit return/space or an 'apply' button.