Bitwig

codec17 · Post by **codec17** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:24 pm

sisarii wrote:
dom@bitwig wrote:Nah, that's no confirmation, i'm not Trump

And be assured we read what users are writing here. We knew it would let to confusion and maybe even to concerns and we take it seriously. And we think we can proof that this is the better model, else we would not have done the change.

Cheers,
Dom
Try answering to some people having legit concerns then like the poster above me. People that supported you from the early days (I am one of them but not a badge holder). You are charging double per year than anyone else in the industry does! Companies with 2 decade old software, vastly more mature than bitwig do not dare to do that. And now you have people that fiercely supported bitwig caving in, its evident in all sorts of social media, check your fb/twitter/reddit bws sub comment section! 70% of the user base is completely alienated either by the decision to go 12 month support model or the insane price people will have tou cough up in order to stay up to date every year.

You are completely out of touch with the community that supported you to get at this point, disregard any critics that provide sound logic behind their posts and instead you are passing time answering to offensive trolls since yesterday. There is a flood of constructive critiscism from people that deeply care about your company. Try giving them some time and explain things. And yes we all know and are not confused of the nature of the license this is not the issue at this point..

Legit question. But the answer is nowhere to be seen....

You dont build any trust in this way... we,ll see what the future brings. I update this year for sure. But they really need to step up the game with updates and fixes to let me update next time.( i had a good sleep about it)
Its not about the money here..... but €169 is not really a bargain. Or how you name on the site: attractive and affordable price.

Soundplex · Post by **Soundplex** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:34 pm

larsomat wrote:So you don't have to pay 160 Euro every year. You could pay it every 1,5 years or every 2 years. It's up to you.

It's not up to me in the following example: a day before my period ends an update introduces a bug that makes Bitwig Studio unusable for me. What now? Have paid software that doesn't work or pay another 160€ to get that bug fixed? In that (most likely to happen) situation you've got forced...

larsomat · Post by **larsomat** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:36 pm

Soundplex wrote:
larsomat wrote:So you don't have to pay 160 Euro every year. You could pay it every 1,5 years or every 2 years. It's up to you.
It's not up to me in the following example: a day before my period ends an update introduces a bug that makes Bitwig Studio unusable for me. What now? Have paid software that doesn't work or pay another 160€ to get that bug fixed? In that (most likely to happen) situation you've got forced...

I'm pretty sure you could always go one version back, where the bug didn't exist.

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:41 pm

always there will be a cracked version, if u want to support the devs, then support them ( €169 means €14 per month less than the macroPro streaming account), if not then ... btw all the old versions are can be reached https://www.bitwig.com/en/previous_releases

Reefius · Post by **Reefius** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:45 pm

Soundplex wrote:It's not up to me in the following example: a day before my period ends an update introduces a bug that makes Bitwig Studio unusable for me. What now? Have paid software that doesn't work or pay another 160€ to get that bug fixed? In that (most likely to happen) situation you've got forced...

They will probably tell you to either pay again or downgrade to a previous version before the bug.

In other words: a (legal) scam.

larsomat · Post by **larsomat** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:50 pm

Reefius wrote:
Soundplex wrote:It's not up to me in the following example: a day before my period ends an update introduces a bug that makes Bitwig Studio unusable for me. What now? Have paid software that doesn't work or pay another 160€ to get that bug fixed? In that (most likely to happen) situation you've got forced...
They will probably tell you to either pay again or downgrade to a previous version before the bug.

In other words: a (legal) scam.

That remains to be seen. For now I'd like to think that they will be fair in certain edge cases where a critical bug was introduced shortly before the update period ends, and will allow another bugfix update for free...

ezelkow1 · Post by **ezelkow1** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:51 pm

larsomat wrote:
Reefius wrote:
Soundplex wrote:It's not up to me in the following example: a day before my period ends an update introduces a bug that makes Bitwig Studio unusable for me. What now? Have paid software that doesn't work or pay another 160€ to get that bug fixed? In that (most likely to happen) situation you've got forced...
They will probably tell you to either pay again or downgrade to a previous version before the bug.

In other words: a (legal) scam.
That remains to be seen. For now I'd like to think that they will be fair in certain edge cases where a critical bug was introduced shortly before the update period ends, and will allow another bugfix update for free...

But if they are willing to do that then again, why not base it on some sort of version system. Where you can be assured that something like 2.3.xx will include all necessary bug fixes for everything introduced in 2.3, so if your subscription ends at 2.4, at least you have a complete product

There is also not a 'shortly before the update period ends', that no longer exists. People can subscribe at any point, which means update periods can end at any point.

Reefius · Post by **Reefius** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:52 pm

Actually, I have yet to see a Bitwig update that didn't introduce new bugs. It has always been one step forward and two steps back. And now they even expect us to pay for it. LOL!

binaryv · Post by **binaryv** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:57 pm

sisarii and jaesm and, I'm sure, many others have said that the pricing Bitwig is planning is at least double the competition. The ONLY exception I can see atm is Pro Tools at $299 a year.

Bitwig, seriously, what makes you think that what you have to offer is worth so much more than what Studio One, Cubase, Ableton, and others have?

Did you guys do any kind of competitive/comparative market analysis? You must know what the competition is charging, I'd hope anyway.

steff3 · Post by **steff3** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:02 pm

larsomat wrote:
Reefius wrote:
Soundplex wrote:It's not up to me in the following example: a day before my period ends an update introduces a bug that makes Bitwig Studio unusable for me. What now? Have paid software that doesn't work or pay another 160€ to get that bug fixed? In that (most likely to happen) situation you've got forced...
They will probably tell you to either pay again or downgrade to a previous version before the bug.

In other words: a (legal) scam.
That remains to be seen. For now I'd like to think that they will be fair in certain edge cases where a critical bug was introduced shortly before the update period ends, and will allow another bugfix update for free...

But then we have the problem - what is a critical edge case (or a critical bug - a show stopper) - it depends on how you use the software - and that varies from user to user. What might be a critical bug for you might not really concern me ....

IMHO the best would be to be strict - otherwise people might get treated differently - which would not be fair.

best

ras.s · Post by **ras.s** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:13 pm

larsomat wrote:
Kubase wrote:With this model, you're paying upfront, and you don't for definite know what you're going to get.
Depends on how you use this model. You could pay now and get free upgrades for the next 12 months. After that you could decide not to pay the next time until you feel it'll be worth it again...

So you don't have to pay 160 Euro every year. You could pay it every 1,5 years or every 2 years. It's up to you.

The more I think about this model, the more I like it.

I think this one is a very sensible point of view -- so quoting it for posterity. It really isn't that much different from how other companies do it. Ie. people pay now for the upgrade to version 2 and they will get one year of updates, new features and bug fixes, but then they'll have to pay up again to get a new version and new round of features and bug fixes. With several other companies you need to pay for the updates that may come within the year since the last purchase, this model avoids that.

Pretty steep price still, though ..

anoise · Post by **anoise** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:24 pm

Prices are too high, especially if you are from a poor country. 99 Eur/year (or less) would be more tolerable, as many have suggested.

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:26 pm

binaryv wrote:sisarii and jaesm and, I'm sure, many others have said that the pricing Bitwig is planning is at least double the competition. The ONLY exception I can see atm is Pro Tools at $299 a year.

For a closer comparison, the annual update plan for a perpetual PT licence is $99, so Bitwig is more expensive than PT. The $299 is for a subscription where you don't already have a perpetual PT licence (that now costs $600). It's also, coincidentally, $299 to 'reinstate' a perpetual licence if you fail to renew the annual plan and at some point want to get back in.

dentnile · Post by **dentnile** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:33 pm

It would be better if they tried to increase the number of Bitwig users instead of charging that much for upgrades. I think the user base is really small compared to Ableton Live, which is an argument against investing in Bitwig.

I want the features of v2, looks awesome. FINALLY spectrum analyzer in the eq. But I will not jump on it at that price.

craigtumps · Post by **craigtumps** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:35 pm

So I get that the new model isn't very popular. But people are talking here as though the current Bitwig is a complete pile of trash and everyone has been ripped off by fraudsters. Put it in perspective a bit guys, this isn't some vapourware scam from Kickstarter. In a short space of time they have created from scratch a DAW that already competes with the big majors that are at version 10.

There has also been lots of updates since version 1.0 so I don't think there is any room for a class action suit here. Bitwig is impressive software if you ask me, easy to use and very stable (no vst crashes woo!). Before you start listing bugs, can you tell me any software that is bug free? Maybe Mario Bros on the NES thats about all I can think of.

They could have made the first upgrade a bit cheaper to sweeten the announcement. But all of these audio softwares come with an upgrade price tag. Even many plugins have very hefty upgrade prices. I can only think of FL Studio that is free forever but they get their income from selling addons. Anyway FL isn't as good as Bitwig IMO and they've had 12 versions to get it right.

Just stay cool, wait and see how the updates keep coming and buy your 2.0 upgrade a bit further down the line, or not at all if you are not impressed with what you see over the coming months.

You know there will be sales too, there is always a sale...

Bitwig

KVR Audio

License model no way !!!