Soundtheory GULLFOSS computional auditory perception EQ

[MadDogE134]

don't know about all the pinko stuff lol... but i wonder if they use the Mel Scale in it... it seems to remove the harsher sounds and enhances the more pleasant (human hearing) ones. there is a LOT going on imo 'behind the curtain' so to speak cheers

[Mathematics]

Ok...so would I buy it? A better question is, what is it lacking? What is needs, IMHO, is an intensity EQ that intensifies the effect when you add gain to that band. Like a regular EQ with notches and shelves; although, the notching and shelving would be much more restrictive because of the way the plugin tries to balance the curve natively. The way it is now, it's just a gimmick.

Knowing what it actually does by experiment and no thanks to their lousy single page user manual, I would consider it if they had plans to add the aforementioned. Until then, I'll take my girl out to dinner with the money.

Last note: I'm sure it would have to be doing something more than just EQ matching to pink noise. I just wish they would explain a little more in the user manual. My final thoughts after all this, use it sparingly, AFTER you've already EQ'd something. If you're using on a master, make sure that master is near perfect already. Run it through Ozone first, then slap on Gullfy after.

[Ploki]

You gotta learn to make lemonade with that stack of lemons.

gonna be sour as f**k.

[pekadan]

Ok...so would I buy it? A better question is, what is it lacking? What is needs, IMHO, is an intensity EQ that intensifies the effect when you add gain to that band. Like a regular EQ with notches and shelves; although, the notching and shelving would be much more restrictive because of the way the plugin tries to balance the curve natively. The way it is now, it's just a gimmick.

Knowing what it actually does by experiment and no thanks to their lousy single page user manual, I would consider it if they had plans to add the aforementioned. Until then, I'll take my girl out to dinner with the money.

Last note: I'm sure it would have to be doing something more than just EQ matching to pink noise. I just wish they would explain a little more in the user manual. My final thoughts after all this, use it sparingly, AFTER you've already EQ'd something. If you're using on a master, make sure that master is near perfect already. Run it through Ozone first, then slap on Gullfy after.

Your tests of Gullfoss and your conclusions are the most useful I’ve read! From now on, anytime I have an itch to buy a new plugin, I’m going to contact you first, hope you don’t mind!

[Mathematics]

I take no credit for the test or results. I'm just sharing my own tests because I believe they could help someone, thinking along the same line, confirm they're own conclusions or give them something else to think about.

I'm not an audio software engineer but in getting my degrees in math and physics, I've studied the foundations of sound. While that doesn't make me an expert, it helps me keep up with those that are and gives me a bit of insight about how things work. Sometimes, it hit or miss. Lol.

Thanks for you kind words.

[DrMEM]

Knowing what it actually does by experiment and no thanks to their lousy single page user manual, I would consider it if they had plans to add the aforementioned. Until then, I'll take my girl out to dinner with the money.

Just because it shapes white noise toward pink noise doesn't mean that's what it does with everything. Try it with some musical content. See if you can replicate its effects with other plugins. If that's all it's doing it should be easy to replicate with one of the other plugins listed above, right?

[sleepcircle]

@mathematics

soundtheory recommends putting gullfoss BEFORE compression

so maybe you would want to use one copy of ozone for eqing and one copy, afterwards, for compression? idk.

[Mathematics]

Knowing what it actually does by experiment and no thanks to their lousy single page user manual, I would consider it if they had plans to add the aforementioned. Until then, I'll take my girl out to dinner with the money.

Just because it shapes white noise toward pink noise doesn't mean that's what it does with everything. Try it with some musical content. See if you can replicate its effects with other plugins. If that's all it's doing it should be easy to replicate with one of the other plugins listed above, right?

Already thought of that. That's why I ran Pink Noise through it. The results speak for itself.

[Mathematics]

@mathematics

soundtheory recommends putting gullfoss BEFORE compression

so maybe you would want to use one copy of ozone for eqing and one copy, afterwards, for compression? idk.

I usually compress then EQ because after compression, the gain I add raises the noise floor. The other way around, brings up the noise floor even more. So, putting Gulfy before the compressor makes sense because IF it is indeed EQ matching to a Pink Noise reference, then you'd want Gulfy to handle the microbands of compression instead of a broadband compressor. Nice bro!

[plexuss]

Knowing what it actually does by experiment and no thanks to their lousy single page user manual, I would consider it if they had plans to add the aforementioned. Until then, I'll take my girl out to dinner with the money.

Just because it shapes white noise toward pink noise doesn't mean that's what it does with everything. Try it with some musical content. See if you can replicate its effects with other plugins. If that's all it's doing it should be easy to replicate with one of the other plugins listed above, right?

Already thought of that. That's why I ran Pink Noise through it. The results speak for itself.

Your test shows what happend when gullfoss processes pink or white noise. But it doesn't show what gullfoss does when it processes audio with varying levels and transients (eg. music). your test is good to show what it does with noise but it's inconclusive in terms of what it will do to music. That's all I think DrMEM is bringing up, which is a fair observation.

[Mathematics]

Let's keep me out of quotes because this thread was resurrected by me actually genuinely asking a question out of curiosity that I ended up answering myself and I decided to share my results with you guys. Thus, whatever "I" said, isn't something you should take as if I am some kind of authority on this. I'm not, as I clearly stated previously.

[Mathematics]

Knowing what it actually does by experiment and no thanks to their lousy single page user manual, I would consider it if they had plans to add the aforementioned. Until then, I'll take my girl out to dinner with the money.

Just because it shapes white noise toward pink noise doesn't mean that's what it does with everything. Try it with some musical content. See if you can replicate its effects with other plugins. If that's all it's doing it should be easy to replicate with one of the other plugins listed above, right?

Already thought of that. That's why I ran Pink Noise through it. The results speak for itself.

Your test shows what happend when gullfoss processes pink or white noise. But it doesn't show what gullfoss does when it processes audio with varying levels and transients (eg. music). your test is good to show what it does with noise but it's inconclusive in terms of what it will do to music. That's all I think DrMEM is bringing up, which is a fair observation.

Hey Plex. So, the gain and attenuation limits that I saw from the graph basically show the max and min of the effect per frequency. So I originally ran several songs through it and saw that it was too laborious taking song after song, so I ran both pink and white noise so that I hit every frequency band at the same time to reveal the curves we saw. So, by asking about actual music, I just looked at the frequency domain as the unknown variable and the amplitude as the unique result to the function of Gullfoss.

Since we see the behavior revealed, one concludes that whatever content you run through it, Gullfoss will make it smoother on the ears. Personally, I, don't need to run tons of audio through it because it's clear to me what Gullfoss is doing. If you guys feel unconvinced that Gullfoss is NOT eq-matching to pink noise, then Gullfoss should change the name of the plugin. After all...

"Gullfoss is a famous Icelandic waterfall. It is one of the most beautiful in the world, and with an unforgettable name. The inspiration for using the name of a waterfall for our plugin comes from one of the questions we asked ourselves while developing our theory. Why do waterfalls sound so pleasing? To answer, one could argue that a waterfall generates close to pink noise. However, that leads to a similar question. Why does pink noise sound pleasing? Both waterfalls and pink noise come near to maximizing the amount of information perceived by your brain. They give your brain more of what it wants. Gullfoss the software is all about organizing the information in the signal so that your brain finds the result more pleasing. Just like a waterfall."

Furthermore, the tests basically show that IF you do run something through, the most gain and attenuation you can expect would be a 9/8db gain/att. So, you'd discover running tons of music through it, you should end up with the same results I came up with.

Some conclusive thoughts, I believe, by my tests, if not obvious:
Gullfoss likes things that already have a decent balanace.
Gullfoss doesn't do so well with single tones.
Gullfoss probably doesn't do so well with music that has a huge crest factor.
Gullfoss is not Soothe or MSD BUT does similarly smooth out the peaks to make audio easier on the ears.

Guys, run with the idea of playing music through it. I'm done testing this thing. I already have my conclusion. I think you guys are pointing the finger at the wrong person. Lol. Seriously. I wasn't trying to prove I was right or anything. I just asked a question that no one helped to answer. So, I just answered it myself and thought my results were only interesting. I just wanted to share it, not start an argument. Sheesh!

[Mathematics]

I have contacted Sound Theory and forwarded everything done here. Here was their response:

"Hi XXX,

Thanks for contacting us!

Our main developer Andreas will be reaching out to you with a response in the coming days."

We'll hear it from the man soon enough. Get your pitchforks and torches ready for him!

[plexuss]

Your tests are good but are limited to the methodology used - constant amplitude noise. As you know plugin code can be doing all kinds of non-linear, conditional and sometimes unpredictable things. Just pointing out the limitations of your test and the importance of not applying your results to what Gullfoss is doing in general. That's all.

I have no need to test it with all kinds of material. I hear what it can do with music and that's enough for me at the moment. Generally I do like to know what a plugin is doing to the audio because it helps with using it effectively. But with Gullfoss I am personally ok with a subjective analysis. I think it might be too complex to run the right test to get a handle on the details of its processing.

Maybe they will write back and tell us.

[Ploki]

I don't think Mathematics is wrong, the question is now how it operates. Is it multiple bands that track like neutron3 and surfer3, or is it (more likely) a FFT based thing.