KVR Audio

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:43 pm

well why we wait, why not have a pool guessing how many more times this thread will get bumped, and how many pages it will reach

DaveSmom · Post by **DaveSmom** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:45 pm

That magic 200 is approachin' .... LOL

championrabbit · Post by **championrabbit** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:04 pm

Midiworks wrote: You should not need hours or even days, to get the tone that you are after.
Would you accept this from any real amplifier?
No, you would turn a few knobs and then start having fun.

This is a typically facile point.

Clearly you can make sound come out of a real amp's speaker merely by plugging it in and turning it on, maybe even a nice sound, but you cannot record a great sound to tape without time, experience and effort.

To suggest that any amp or ampsim is capable of the 'perfect' sound without it's user (or the AE) spending time and effort on the sound it to display a complete lack of understanding about the recording process.

There is no perfect recorded guitar sound; it's a hugely subjective area and thus it is absolutely right that amp sims offer the widest possible range of tones since they do not allow for varied miking techniques/room-sizes/mic-types blah blah blah.

Obviously the wider the tonal variation available, the longer it might potentially take to find the tone you're looking for.

Your point clearly implies that you believe you have narrowed down the available tones to those that 'people' want. I'd love to know what your opinion relating to people's desired tones is based upon, particularly since you don't play guitar.

ChocoLatteRabbit · Post by **ChocoLatteRabbit** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:48 pm

Hink wrote:

FWIW I think it would be far better to get away from the word "sims"...who really cares about whether it sounds like a Marshall, or a Fender, or a Boogie? Perhaps the truly pretentious guitar player might. But what matters too me is not if it sounds like the real amp.

Hink, you make some interesting points here. Consider the word, "paradigm."

When technology evolves as rapidly as it has in our lifetime, then proper marketing of a new product demands that the person doing the sales/marketing make some comparison to existing products. ie, ours is faster, more complicated, simpler, more versatile, sweeter, sounds just like blah's ....

Interestingly, we are still doing that in vsti world with Moog, ARP, TB-303 ...... And some of us are going, "Why? Why make the comparison when the new product is simply a new animal species. And we like the new animal species."

I have an old Zoom 503 solidstate ampsim that I love. It doesn't do very good emulations, but it simply sounds good in its own right, its own way. It's a great tube amp, but who knows the brand it's supposed to be emulating.

In my own case, regarding VSTi's, I have listened to some of the newest vsti's, only to find them so alien to the paradigm of my ear's audio understanding that I dismissed the new product as total crap. Sometimes months later, as I find the existing old vsti's growing stale sounding, I give the newer ones another listen and discover that I have grown into the new sound and I like it. I have changed the paradigm of my aural appreciation.

It seems to be the evolution of an "aural intelligence" - a brain function. The listener learns how to handle the new sounds, how to relate them to the old sounds to which he/she is accustomed. The listener learns to integrate and differentiate the new sound.

Some listeners embrace the new sounds, and some are still hooked on 1950's rockabilly, or 1940's style bluegrass, or worst of all 1970's DISCO!!!!

Anyway, these are just some thoughts that occured to me in the last few minutes.

Are we closer to 200 yet? Midiworks, you may have started this thread, but it isn't necessarily about you totally, Dude. We hereby reserve the right to hijack this thread occasionally.

championrabbit · Post by **championrabbit** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:05 pm

ChocoLatteRabbit wrote:I have an old Zoom 503 solidstate ampsim that I love. It doesn't do very good emulations, but it simply sounds good in its own right, its own way. It's a great tube amp, but who knows the brand it's supposed to be emulating.

Oh, bravo!

This is exactly the point!

Midiworks · Post by **Midiworks** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:07 pm

championrabbit wrote:Clearly you can make sound come out of a real amp's speaker merely by plugging it in and turning it on, maybe even a nice sound, but you cannot record a great sound to tape without time, experience and effort.

To suggest that any amp or ampsim is capable of the 'perfect' sound without it's user (or the AE) spending time and effort on the sound it to display a complete lack of understanding about the recording process.

Right, its about the recording process, not McDonalds.

championrabbit wrote: I'd love to know what your opinion relating to people's desired tones is based upon, particularly since you don't play guitar.

I already played guitar and recorded in major studios,
probably around the time, when you started to learn to walk...

ChocoLatteRabbit wrote:Midiworks, you may have started this thread, but it isn't necessarily about you totally, Dude. We hereby reserve the right to hijack this thread occasionally.

No problem.

sonicfire · Post by **sonicfire** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:13 pm

its called "major" ...

Col.G · Post by **Col.G** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:15 pm

Midiworks wrote:Right, its about the recording process, not McDonalds.
I already played guitar and recorded in mayor studios,
probably around the time, when you started to learn to walk...

Mayor McCheese's Studio?

Sorry I just had to.

Midiworks · Post by **Midiworks** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:27 pm

championrabbit · Post by **championrabbit** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:38 pm

Midiworks wrote: I already played guitar and recorded in mayor studios,
probably around the time, when you started to learn to walk...

'Mayor'?

Which records can we hear your playing on?

Midiworks · Post by **Midiworks** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:51 pm

Cool eh !?

CR you are a clever boy, you'll find out.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:52 pm

@chocolate rabbit, I do agree with you on everything save for one, I'm not sure the 503 was a sim...I know the 505 wasn't, it was an fx box, as was the 506 (which I gave one to my bass player 4 or 5 years ago)

@CR you might have more options than you think, like the xt live has several mic choices and you can position the mic close or far away and on/off axis. On paper mic-ing an amp is better, but in the world of home studios it can do more harm than good. Face it, at this point with DAWs how many would spend the money on good mics, and how many would throw a cheap radio shack mic in front of it and buy a pluggin? I know for me I learned a lot of guitar playing by trying to recapture a take that had a truck driving by or something. That's why sansamp was so popular before sims imo.

@Col.G

@Rene, tbh I thought you had said before you were not a guitar player, but you would know better than me. I'm gonna jump on the "I believe" wagon, though I might tease the hell out of you in the mean time

But I do hope you come out with something cool, and I have enough faith to believe your intentions are sincere.

However, I would love to hear some of your playing sometime

wsaidah · Post by **wsaidah** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:07 pm

200 woof tickets

MrM · Post by **MrM** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:45 pm

Midiworks wrote:Cool eh !?

Wow! Way cool

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:49 pm

MrM wrote:
Midiworks wrote:Cool eh !?

Wow! Way cool

yeah but where's the new engine?...is it a wankle? a hemi? Hell I don't even see the spark plugs

edit...I bet it will be fool injected when it's done

Guitar players, The soundclick MP3 demo page got updated !