Pigments 3.5 vs Dune 3.5

[_morton_]

Does it show you if the speed is free or sync, what the shape is, how much delay there is, how much fade in etc etc

No but your ears tell you all that, what you're looking for is things you can't tell just by listening. e.g. You can hear whether or not an LFO is in sync or free-running but your ears can't tell you if it's LFO 1, LFO 2, LFO 3 or LFO 4. But the modulation animations in HY-Poly or Pigments will let you see which one it is, quickly and easily.

One click on the LFO tab tells me all that, no animations needed.

[Dencheg]

Yeah, nah. It's more like eczema and I've found other synths I like the sound of as much as DUNE. Not across the board like DUNE, except maybe ANA-2, but for specific things.

Well, one man's freckles is another man's eczema
(also I don't think more synths than number of fingers on one hand sound as good as Dune; the difference might be under some non-significant for you threshold)
upd: of course, for specific things there might be better tools than Dune, even if it's the bestest in general

[syntonica]

Meh. Get the one that inspires you most and you want to take home to Mother.

Or, get Spire.

I'm still not sure how the OP landed on these two synths as their choices. I'm not even sure what their criteria were. Some fine points made in this thread, but, after 20 pagess, they amount to what in the end?

[chk071]

I'm still not sure how the OP landed on these two synths as their choices. I'm not even sure what their criteria were.

What always puzzles me the most is how you can't decide yourself, when for both synths there is a demo version available.

[syntonica]

I'm still not sure how the OP landed on these two synths as their choices. I'm not even sure what their criteria were.

What always puzzles me the most is how you can't decide yourself, when for both synths there is a demo version available.

I've started a couple of these type threads myself. Even heavy demoing may not reveal all possible hidden shortcomings, or even non-obvious but snazzy features. Also, for some synths, there are no demos available (Omnisphere, Falcon, et al.)

It's the lack of demoing first and then not saying what they are looking for that gets me.

[chk071]

I'm still not sure how the OP landed on these two synths as their choices. I'm not even sure what their criteria were.

What always puzzles me the most is how you can't decide yourself, when for both synths there is a demo version available.

I've started a couple of these type threads myself. Even heavy demoing may not reveal all possible hidden shortcomings, or even non-obvious but snazzy features. Also, for some synths, there are no demos available (Omnisphere, Falcon, et al.)

It's the lack of demoing first and then not saying what they are looking for that gets me.

Well, the original question was: "Which is the better VST and why? Pigments 3.5 or Dune 3.5?"

So, you can be pretty sure that it's the latter.

[rezoneight]

I mean yeah I can tweak EQ too using knobs and my ears. Or I can dial it in specifically in FabFilter Pro-Q since I can *see* exactly what is going on in addition to hearing it.

What's the advantage of that? I see none unless you can also see what's going on in the rest of your mix. That's why your ears do a better job.

I didn't say anything about just using the EQ display on Pro-Q so not sure why my ears would do a better job alone. Anyone using Pro-Q likely is using both, as I noted. And why wouldn't I be able to see what is going on in the rest of the mix? Dan Worrall sums it up quite nicely at the end of his Waves SSL v2 review video: its faster than using a bunch of virtual knobs.

BONES if you're having a hard time understanding why sight/hearing are better than just hearing alone: go a full day with your eyes closed. See how much faster things are when you can see and hear at the same time vs. just relying on your hearing.

[syntonica]

Well, the original question was: "Which is the better VST and why? Pigments 3.5 or Dune 3.5?"

So, you can be pretty sure that it's the latter.

Oh, well, then neither. They are both at 3.5! Duh.

[Dencheg]

BONES if you're having a hard time understanding why sight/hearing are better than just hearing alone: go a full day with your eyes closed. See how much faster things are when you can see and hear at the same time vs. just relying on your hearing.

It's a bit of overstretched argument. The synth should also pour water in my cup (or better, tea)
Try to spend entire day without water and then compare with a joyful water day

A synth is not a day

[rezoneight]

BONES if you're having a hard time understanding why sight/hearing are better than just hearing alone: go a full day with your eyes closed. See how much faster things are when you can see and hear at the same time vs. just relying on your hearing.

It's a bit of overstretched argument. The synth should also pour water in my cup (or better, tea)
Try to spend entire day without water and then compare with a joyful water day

A synth is not a day

Might be overstretched, but a hell of a lot less than yours A synth is not water. But I can guarantee you that if you try to go a day (10 minutes, 2 hours, whatever) with your eyes shut you'll see how much easier things are when you have the use of both senses. This directly applies to audio work. It's exactly why there are attempts to make useable interfaces on hardware or software vs. just a bunch of unlabeled knobs. Hey which one of these is the filter cutoff? I dunno....just try one and see what it does - use your ears! Versus hey this knob thats bigger than the others, is in the middle of the synth, and is labeled "filter cutoff" might be important! Which would you rather have?

[chagzuki]

How much do version updates tend to cost for Dune? I'm tempted to get it if a sale is on, but not so keen on having to pay out every year or so for updates.

Had Pigments for ages, it does a lot of things well. Loads of filter types, loads of sound generation methods, flexible routing and good fx... great for the money.

[rezoneight]

How much do version updates tend to cost for Dune? I'm tempted to get it if a sale is on, but not so keen on having to pay out every year or so for updates.

Had Pigments for ages, it does a lot of things well. Loads of filter types, loads of sound generation methods, flexible routing and good fx... great for the money.

For DUNE I paid going from 2 to 3 but haven't paid since. Was $59 at the time (2019) and I believe right when the upgrade was announced.

[Dencheg]

Might be overstretched, but a hell of a lot less than yours A synth is not water. But I can guarantee you that if you try to go a day (10 minutes, 2 hours, whatever) with your eyes shut you'll see how much easier things are when you have the use of both senses. This directly applies to audio work. It's exactly why there are attempts to make useable interfaces on hardware or software vs. just a bunch of unlabeled knobs. Hey which one of these is the filter cutoff? I dunno....just try one and see what it does - use your ears! Versus hey this knob thats bigger than the others, is in the middle of the synth, and is labeled "filter cutoff" might be important! Which would you rather have?

Ever seen people closing the eyes while listening to music?
Or people playing guitars behind their necks without complaining that the tone and volume knobs suddenly got unlabeled?
That's because people won't be visiting those who can't recall where the cutoff knob or 6th string is, or who would need a string bend amount indicator
Try to play a synth for a day without hearing it, and you'll get why there is a group of people which doesn't really need to see every lfo jumping around.
Bu the way, would also be cool to see the current value of osciallators. Why limit ourselves with LFOs or envelopes?

[zerocrossing]

Might be overstretched, but a hell of a lot less than yours A synth is not water. But I can guarantee you that if you try to go a day (10 minutes, 2 hours, whatever) with your eyes shut you'll see how much easier things are when you have the use of both senses. This directly applies to audio work. It's exactly why there are attempts to make useable interfaces on hardware or software vs. just a bunch of unlabeled knobs. Hey which one of these is the filter cutoff? I dunno....just try one and see what it does - use your ears! Versus hey this knob thats bigger than the others, is in the middle of the synth, and is labeled "filter cutoff" might be important! Which would you rather have?

Ever seen people closing the eyes while listening to music?
Or people playing guitars behind their necks without complaining that the tone and volume knobs suddenly got unlabeled?
That's because people won't be visiting those who can't recall where the cutoff knob or 6th string is, or who would need a string bend amount indicator
Try to play a synth for a day without hearing it, and you'll get why there is a group of people which doesn't really need to see every lfo jumping around.
Bu the way, would also be cool to see the current value of osciallators. Why limit ourselves with LFOs or envelopes?

You’re conflating two different things. A synthesizer is not a guitar, at least not past the keyboard aspect of it. So, no one labels frets and strings and a whammy bar, just like no one labels keys, pitch and mod wheels.

In a synthesizer, you are crafting the instrument to your desire. Imagine making a hollow bodied patch for a guitar by chiseling out cavities in the body. (Not going to talk about simulation of resonant objects.) So, the synthesizer requires a completely different set of controls with a different interface.

Visual feedback is really great for this. I never could really get FM synthesis on hardware, but a few hours with an iPad app and it was super clear. Even better are software instruments that show you exactly where in time each MSEG’s level is. When you can see all of it at once, you gain insight as to how each element is contributing to the sound. This informs you of what changes you may want to make. This isn’t important when all you have to shape the sound is a multi position switch and three knobs.

[pdxindy]

You can hear whether or not an LFO is in sync or free-running but your ears can't tell you if it's LFO 1, LFO 2, LFO 3 or LFO 4. But the modulation animations in HY-Poly or Pigments will let you see which one it is, quickly and easily.

One click on the LFO tab tells me all that, no animations needed.

Except it could be an MSEG that is functioning like an LFO and in that case you would have to click in as many as 5 places to find it. And what if an LFO and an MSEG have almost identical settings? You wont be able to tell which of them is actually the mod source unless you start tweaking that source to hear if it affects the sound... or go look in the mod matrix to confirm.

A visual cue would mean no clicks or uncertainty... also, lots of synths have the option to right-click on a parameter and it lists the mod sources. Dune doesn't even have that. And you still have to go to the matrix every time you want to set-up modulation or adjust a mod depth.

Dune requires lots of trips to the mod matrix and the mod matrix is a tiny little thing inside some fake hardware screen. You can only see 7 mod slots at once without scrolling. And you cannot scroll quickly because trackpads and mousewheels only work on the little scrollbar on the right. You cannot sort the matrix by source or target... you cannot rearrange the slots or disable a slot.

Pigments is in a different league. In Pigments, I can select a parameter like filter cutoff. Then the center modulation area shows all the modulators, which ones are assigned to cutoff and the depths which can be edited right there in relation to each other.

And Pigments goes both directions. I can select a source, say Velocity. Then I can add as many targets as I want just by dragging the mod ring around the parameter. You can disable an individual target and also add a side chain modulator and set its depth.