KVR Audio

dusted william · Post by **dusted william** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:20 am

demo's are good for another reason...

From the devs standpoint. If a plug is good, and a user loves the demo, then start to need it.

If they never really try it they won't know for sure.

I have to admit, I've been burned more than once with a non demo app.

hence, if they won't budge at least they offer the money back G!

dw

;-) · Post by **;-)** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:36 am

Crandall1 wrote:We don't release demos of our cheaper plug-ins. We just don't do it. I've had this conversation many times both here and at OSXa, and see no real reason to go over it again.

We offer a 100% no-questions-asked refund policy in lieu of a demo. It is intrinsically the same thing, and protects us almost totally from piracy. If you have problems with the plugin, or just don't like it, all you have to do is tell us.

As for the bundle desires noted above, we don't have any plans in the near term to do this. We would consider such things if we didn't charge almost nothing for our plugins to begin with. We're by far the cheapest of the larger boutique companies already for comparable products. The only reason we can maintain these prices is that we don't do print advertising.

Chris Randall
Audio Damage, Inc.
http://www.audiodamage.com

That's all very fine, but your audio demos are quite useless. Because nobody actually can imagine what the original sound was and what "tricks" you used to make it sound that way.

You should at least provide before/after samples (allot of them) to demonstrate the main features if you don't provide demo versions at all.

But's your philosophy. I guess you don't sell that much generally because of your current strategy... So if you are wondering that it don't work, then it (the stupid marketing) is probably the reason.

On the other side I really don't understand what the warez scene has to do with demos. Not the demos are "cracked" but always the full versions are shipped to the warez packagers.

.

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:39 am

000 wrote:I guess you don't sell that much generally because of your current strategy... So if you are wondering that it don't work, then it (the stupid marketing) is probably the reason.

Maybe it filters out whiney f**king chaff like yourself. Ever think of that, WonderBread?

;-) · Post by **;-)** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:43 am

No. definately not.
It's the "see what we have (showing you merely a picture of a cat) - you can buy it (while cat is hidden inside a closed bag)" strategy.

If that is a "filter", so I am out for sure ...

And so I really don't wonder if you have all those plugs. Because such a "filter" obviously would let you thru for some reasons.

.

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:52 am

Sorry, man..this is one of those very rare cases where the cat is actually worth a whole lot more than the asking price.

I'll put my own reputation here behind Chris and Co anyday..

;-) · Post by **;-)** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:57 am

I honor that!

But what's good for you must not necessarily be good for everyone.

I guess, if you act always in that manner, you would more often look into shite than "top products". For sure.

So that is an exeption.

By the way: If 100 people say to me: it is good, so I would ask for a demo never the less prior giving out the money.

.

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:04 am

It's not like Audiodamage doesn't give a detailed description of what the plug is for. These are boutique effects modeled after specific hardware devices for very specific sounds..

Crandall1 · Post by **Crandall1** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:19 am

I was going to say something to that effect (pun intended), but then it occured to me that the people that bitch about demos generally aren't the people that buy products. It is, however, nice that everyone has pretty much made up their minds before-hand, because I've spent my sales pitch, and it is no longer really necessary for me to be polite.

It is worth noting, for all you whiney types, that DubStation is a subset of Ronin, basically pre-patched. So if you care to tear yourselves away from KvR for ten minutes, you can go download THE DEMO of Ronin, make certain you don't like it, then come back here and bitch about how it sounds terrible and you'd never buy anything from us anyways because I'm an asshole, rather than going on ad nauseum about how DubStation is too expensive or this demo business you're so hung up on.

The point being, if you're trying to change my mind about demos, calling me stupid might not be the best way. Audio Damage is one of the many companies that support this site financially, so maybe our marketing strategy, which contributes directly to where you spend so much time, is perhaps ill-advised after all.

Chris Randall
Audio Damage, Inc.
http://www.audiodamage.com

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:25 am

Huh

Although that should have been seen coming, still it's rather surprising...

Well, now that's out in the open, it's at least easier for some people to make up business decisions

JMH

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:28 am

There's plenty of Audiodamage loyalists here who know the build quality of your work, Chris. And for those that don't, as you said, Ronin has a good demo available.

Just let it slide.

Left Headphone · Post by **Left Headphone** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:39 am

Crandall1 · Post by **Crandall1** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:42 am

Heh. It's all in good fun. None of this bothers me; I have just about the thickest skin you could find. If I was even remotely worried about the mosh-pit that is KvR, I wouldn't post here. I knew this thread would occur the second I hit "New Topic."

But that said, there's no particular reason that I have to sit here and watch people talk shit about me and to me just because I'm a developer. Our products have done quite well, and will continue to do so. A little old-fashioned trash talking is good for the soul.

Chris Randall
Audio Damage, Inc.

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:55 am

I certainly hope what I said earlier in reaction to someone else's posting doesn't count as 'talking shit' - at least that wasn't the intention.

FWIW Audio Damage's products do sound good, no doubt about that. And boutique effects do have their place on the market, no doubt about that either.

It's just that public outbursts might backfire on a developer, no matter how 'justified' in its original context it might be. (Hence the second post, it's still not directed as a remark of what Chris said, but rather about its possible effect...)

Regards,

JMH

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:07 am

What no demo? Come on! WTF!!!

For what it's worth, like Sickle said, the quality and customer service you get from AD is top-notch. I don't love the no-demo policy for the cheaper things, but really, we're bitching over $39. I don't like spending money, I mention it here at least once a week, and even I don't think that's a big deal. I mean seriously, it's not like we're talking about Trilogy - $300 sight unseen, and folk rave over that all the time.

Don't bother with this if you just aren't so inclined, but I will say that the delay in Ronin is unmatched by anything cheaper or free. I have in fact tried every delay I have (and decided to delete at least a dozen) this weekend, so I can say that with fair certainty. If you like Ronin, but are scared of the modular thing and only want to spend half price, then Dubstation might be what you're after.

And as for outbursts, it's good to see someone talking back to the mobwhingers. And on the scale of crazy developers, this still ranks well below that nutjob who had a support forum here for a week then pulled up stakes after calling everyone here and their mothers dirty names (if memory serves, it involved threats of violence and some bigoted slurs, yeehaw!).

Cheers,
Steve

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:16 am

zoot!

Audio Damage DubStation...