confessions of a serial cubase user

[ermi]

headquest: the thing about the warp marker... I think that's the same as 'Audio warp' in Cubase?

I'd like to see a 'Drum editor' in Live, there's no such thing right?
Anyway the drum composition seems very nice/fast in Live.

Another thing Live misses is the dongle.
But that's a good thing, of course. I don't say...


I'd also like to have a more detailed comparison between Cubase and Live, tho.

[headquest]

Can Ableton do everything Cubase does? If not, what can it not do?

Thanks.

good question.
headquest, what would a person lose going from Cubase to Ableton?

In terms of sheer features quite a lot actually. The question is, do you need/want those features? Or would you prefer a cleaner and easier composing environment?

As you asked though, here are some of the "headliners" that Cubase has and Ableton doesn't have:

* Staff Notation (I doubt Ableton will ever have that. I use Sibelius though, so I'm sorted... and the notation in Cubase is pretty poor from the point of view of a performing musician)

* MIDI Event List

* Video

* Surround Sound

* Classic style folder tracks (although Live has a superb routing system - WAY better imho than Cubase - in which doing submixes, etc, is a real breeze)

* Integration with external hardware such as mLan, and the ability to automate external devices, etc

My advice would be this:

* If you have Cubase and like it - keep Cubase as your main DAW, try the Live demo, and if you like it use Live for the stuff where Cubase is less good. Live can also run as a ReWire client within Cubase, too

* If you have Cubase and don't like it - try Live. It might be exactly what you are looking for.

And to finish off by providing more balance, the headline things that Live has and Cubase does not (so far as I know):

* The Session View - absolutely amazing for trying out and jamming brand new arrangements of a track. In session view you can gather all you various materials and simply *play* until you get an arrangement that is based on musical instinct, rather than simply moving colourful blocks around a Cubase type arrangment screen.

* Gapless audio

* All sorts of live performance uses

* Fantastically intuitive routing and mixing capabilities

* Very fast sequencing and recording without the need for multiple screens/windows

* Crossfading

* loads more, I'm sure

[headquest]

HI

While we are talking about Live - is there a key command to open the Piano-roll to full size?

Flipper.

No... but you can simply drag it with the mouse until it snaps to full-screen

Also, remember that all the other bits and bobs on the interface can be opened and closed using the little icons dotted around the edge.

[headquest]

Jo, Cubase has a warp audio function now. I've not used it since I'm not a Cubase owner and there's no demo of it, but I imagine it'll do the same thing.

Yes it does (since Cubase SX3)... as others have added as well.

However, I saw a tutorial for this in (I think) Sound on Sound, which I read with interest. It seemed to me that the Cubase approach was much more complex, involved a seperate window, and would take much longer to actually do.

Possibly it was a badly written tutorial of course, and I don't want to rush to judgement here... but it left me with the impression that - like so many other things in Cubase - the implementation is unnecessarily complex.

[ermi]

* Very fast sequencing and recording without the need for multiple screens/windows

Yeah, that's also what I thought when I saw the videos (I'll try Live too, very soon).

The UI seemed cleaner than the Cubase one, where you have to move around overlapping windows and you have to open (new) windows for simple editing (with in-place they invented hot water, imho)...

[dgkenney]

* If you have Cubase and like it - keep Cubase as your main DAW, try the Live demo, and if you like it use Live for the stuff where Cubase is less good. Live can also run as a ReWire client within Cubase, too

This is the one thing that drives me crazy as a Live shortfall. In a rewire client mode, Live loses the ability to host VSti's so what's the point. Everything has to be converted to audio first (which, as you pointed out, with Live's extremely flexible routing is not difficult) But it is an extra step and limits the flexibility in rewire. As a host it's great.


Dan

[saturdaysaint]

As for lanes/layers - unless I am misundestanding your meaning - Live can accomplish these in its implementation of looped clip recording.

I know Live lets you layer clips in a track, but to my knowledge, it can't display them in seperate lanes (kind of like tracks within tracks). Here's a screenshot - http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/clips.htm. They're really helpful for quickly putting together good takes and doing crossfades.

[headquest]

As for lanes/layers - unless I am misundestanding your meaning - Live can accomplish these in its implementation of looped clip recording.

I know Live lets you layer clips in a track, but to my knowledge, it can't display them in seperate lanes (kind of like tracks within tracks). Here's a screenshot - http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/clips.htm. They're really helpful for quickly putting together good takes and doing crossfades.

Yeah, add "comping" to my list of things Ableton doesn't yet do.

Then again, Live has only been around for about four years. It has a stunning development pace and who knows what it will do next year!!

(Cakewalk and Steinberg have been developing theirs for - what - twenty odd year now?)

[Lunch Money]

No comping? What about easy crossfades like the Tracktion "auto crossfade" option? Those are must-haves for me.

Wait, I promised to try the demo. <laff> Can't now... I'm off for a Canadian culinary treat: poutine!

[headquest]

No comping?

Indeed. Tracktion got to that one first

What about easy crossfades like the Tracktion "auto crossfade" option? Those are must-haves for me.

I'm not familiar with that in Tracktion so you'll have to enlighten me!

Ableton Live has a full-on crossfader. Every mixer channel allows you to select A or B (or not, of course) to assign the level on that track as you crossfade between the two. On the Mster Strip there is a MIDI assignable crossfader that you can use in real time to fade between different grooves, etc, laid out in the A and B arrangements.

This is obviously one of the big draw features so far as the DJ crowd are concerned.

Wait, I promised to try the demo. <laff> Can't now... I'm off for a Canadian culinary treat: poutine!

Erm... enjoy!

[dgkenney]

As for lanes/layers - unless I am misundestanding your meaning - Live can accomplish these in its implementation of looped clip recording.

I know Live lets you layer clips in a track, but to my knowledge, it can't display them in seperate lanes (kind of like tracks within tracks). Here's a screenshot - http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/clips.htm. They're really helpful for quickly putting together good takes and doing crossfades.

O.K. The link didn't work but I do know what you mean. I am up-to-date on Cubase and know SOnar through Sonar 3.

Live can do it...it just does it differently. I use this feature all the time. The Live clips are essentially "tracks within tracks" and the legato function allows you to switch among them with perfect in-step timing. It is the same effect as Cubase cut/or mute sections of lanes to let other lanes "play through." Additionally, they don't even have to be part of the same recording take as lanes would have to be. Other ways in live can be done with the clip braces identifying "sub-clips" and joining them together.

Believe me if you suspend the way you are use to doing it and give Live's methodolgy a chance you will never want to go back. At least that's my assessment based upon my workflow and preferences. Comping live audio and rearranging improv's on the fly are a joy in Live. I never want to cut/move/paste/align/repeat again.

Crossfades take two tracks in Live. Clearly not as powerful as Cubase or Sonar in this area

Dan

[headquest]

Live can do it...it just does it differently. I use this feature all the time. The Live clips are essentially "tracks within tracks" and the legato function allows you to switch among them with perfect in-step timing. It is the same effect as Cubase cut/or mute sections of lanes to let other lanes "play through." Additionally, they don't even have to be part of the same recording take as lanes would have to be. Other ways in live can be done with the clip braces identifying "sub-clips" and joining them together.

Okay, put like that, Live does do comping!

I take it by "legato" function you mean using Follow Actions? (or am I totally missing something in your explanation?).

Cheers anyway - I will have to try this one out! (although as you no doubt guessed, comping is not something I'm particularly fussed about).

[dgkenney]

I take it by "legato" function you mean using Follow Actions? (or am I totally missing something in your explanation?).

Nope....in the clip box there is a switch for "legato" which essentially tells the clip NOT to start at the begining when launched but to come in "where it is supposed to be" based upon the musical timing of the clip and the track.

Here's the Live manual explanation:
Another option, which works even with quantization turned off, is to engage Legato Mode
for the respective clips. When a clip in Legato Mode is launched, it takes over the playposition from whatever clip was played in that track before. Hence, you can toggle clips at
any moment and rate without ever losing the sync.

Not sure if that makes sense but it's easier to play with and understand than explain.

Dan

[headquest]

I never spotted that one even!!

And that's one of the great things ablout Ableton too... you keep discovering innocuous looking buttons and finding that they do absolutely awesome things.

I going to be playing with this one pronto - thanks for pointing it out!!

[Lunch Money]

You don't know about the auto-crossfade in Tracktion? I coulda sworn you a Tracktion user for a while...!

It's truly nothing special, and I know for sure it can be done in other hosts, but somehow it always seemed a hassle. For example, in Cubase you had to do it within your lanes, which didn't leave things visually organized and obvious.

All you do is take any two overlapping clips, select one, and press "auto crossfade" for perfect crossfade between them.

It's truly not "revolutionary" and it seems even silly mentioning it, but I use it ALL the time and if Live doesn't do it that way, they're missing the boat!