confessions of a serial cubase user

[seamoss]

man oh man

I have always been a diehard Cubase user since vst and I really have no complaints about this software but I went to the dark side yesterday and played around with Ableton......and well....


.... .....


I think I may be in love


I know, I know, what's new? - there are people saying this type of thing every week. I guess I have always preferred the "old school" way of multitracking and never really wanted to look at sequencing differently. This is coming from someone who does not play/write loop based music.


anyway, I guess my point of this thread is to push any hardcore Cubase users to spend an hour or so playing with ableton and you might find yourself very surprised at how much fun you have.

[Josmoker]

Sooo, can you elaborate a bit on what exactly it is that should be appealing to Cubase users?

Cheers, Jo

[seamoss]

Sooo, can you elaborate a bit on what exactly it is that should be appealing to Cubase users?

Cheers, Jo

honestly, If I had to wrap it up in one word I would say "efficiency"

and this is coming from someone who doesn't REALLY know the program. It took my a minute or two to understand how things work because it's got a completely different layout than a traditional multitrack program, but one I got a hand of it, I was knocking out music very quickly, and having a great deal of fun in the process.


everything just seems laid out logically. I never thought (and still don't think) that Cubase wasn't laid out logically but it's one of those things you can't know what your missing until you have tried something new.

[stefancrs]

Applys for all hosts (and most other software too) I'm afraid

[Lunch Money]

Ableton seems cool enough.

[Stupid American Pig]

I have considered getting Live, but right now a new host isnt in the budget, especially, when I am trying to reduce the amount of stuff I have, mebbe when version 6 comes out I will give it a crack.


<edit>

errr I mean a try, not a crack

[haydxn]

live seems nice, and it's a great idea. i feel that i should get on with it well, yet somehow... whilst i can see it's clever and neatly arranged, i just can't stand the interface. not the way it looks, but the way you use it... it really doesn't agree with me.

i would love to like it tho, and i'm sure i don't have a point or reason to criticise it. i just don't get on with it myself. perhaps it's because i know i can't afford to like it!! i have my own ways of working tho, and they make me happy

congratulations on your new found love!

[seamoss]

yeah, unfortunately I don't have the cash for it now either.

I too hated the way ableton interface worked. I tried it for about 20-30 minutes once about a year ago or so and thought "wow.....I hate this application.

Last night I MADE myself at least learn it enough to get a song going with three to four tracks.

That's all it took.


by no means am I saying that this could replace cubase for me. it just has the potential to, that's all.

one thing I couldn't find last night was a feckin drum map. I would have to imagine that it's there somewhere, though. i couldn't imagine any sequencer without one of these

[Lunch Money]

Tracktion, eXT? A drum map is just a different way of programming MIDI. Any step sequencer (DK+, Stepchild, amongst a million others) will address drum map needs.

I have to admit, I find it impossible to understand how people can make tracks with raw audio in Live. Ie, a guitar, a voice, a bass track. I know Live CAN be non-pattern, but it doesn't seem to make it easy. It's almost like to get any fun out of it, you need to be using loops. I don't think in terms of loops. That doesn't mean I never USE loops, but I don't arrange a song in terms of loops.

Greg

[seamoss]

Tracktion, eXT? A drum map is just a different way of programming MIDI. Any step sequencer (DK+, Stepchild, amongst a million others) will address drum map needs.

I have to admit, I find it impossible to understand how people can make tracks with raw audio in Live. Ie, a guitar, a voice, a bass track. I know Live CAN be non-pattern, but it doesn't seem to make it easy. It's almost like to get any fun out of it, you need to be using loops. I don't think in terms of loops. That doesn't mean I never USE loops, but I don't arrange a song in terms of loops.

Greg

and that is something I have yet to try. I need to see how it handles this sort of thing. I did not try to record audio into ableton, so this could possibly be a make it or break it for me. I too do not arrange songs with loops. I use them ocassionally but I they are never a major part of my songs.

I just recorded some drums with battery by hand and then laid some bass & rhodes. This was way cool and way easy with ableton. I would definitely have to see how it handles live recorded audio before I would ever consider using it.

As far as the drum mapping goes, I am talking about the way drums are laid out in step mode. I do not like to look a piano roll when I am laying out drums. I like the way Cubase does this with the grid and little diamonds.

[headquest]

Hi again seamoss, and a big warm welcome to the whacky world of Ableton!

one thing I couldn't find last night was a feckin drum map. I would have to imagine that it's there somewhere, though. i couldn't imagine any sequencer without one of these

If I undestand correctly what you are looking for, then the functionality is integrated seamlessly into the main Ableton interface. Unlike Cubase, Ableton do not provide multiple windows with different functions.

I think this is what you are after:

1. Set up a MIDI track in Session View (hold Ctr + Shift + T )

2. From the browser on the left side of the screen, select the second icon, which opens up Ableton's own plugin instruments, MIDI and audio effects.

3. Drag an instance of "Impulse" onto the MIDI track. The interface will appear in the lower left section of the screen. Impulse is an excellent and highly configurable drum sampler with eight slots.

4. The second to top right button opens the list of preset kits inthe browser. There are loads of them to check out.

5. If you double click on an empty clip slot on the track, then the MIDI grid for sequencing appears in the lower right portion of the screen.

6. Activate the MIDI preview button (top left of the grid) to hear the drum hits as you enter them.

7. Right click over the grid to select the quantise value.

8. From the clip proerties to the lower left of the screen you can determine time signature and the length of the clip (1 bars... - infinity!) Velocity lane is below the grid.

9. Select the pencil tool from the main transport bar at the top of the screen. Enter notes with a single click, drag the mouse to enter a string of notes (e.g. for the hi-hat), click again to remove notes. Alt + Drag up and down to change individual velocity of a note.

Here's another bit of fun:

1. From Options > select "Computer MIDI keyboard"

2. Activat the track for record on the mixer section

3. On your querty keyboard the letters A S D F G H J K now "play" the right drum samples in real time for you!! A great way to preview kits!

Have more fun!!

[dgkenney]

I have always been a diehard Cubase user since vst and I really have no complaints about this software but I went to the dark side yesterday and played around with Ableton......and well....

.... .....

I think I may be in love

I had the same experience. I started using Cubase with the birth of VST. At the same time I was also using Cakewalk (6 I believe was the version.) After awhile I drifted away from Cakewalk. There was nothing wrong with the program but its interface always seemed to be more in my way than helpful. Tried again with the Sonar reincarnations but I can't seem to warm up to Cakewalks's way of doing things and I've always found the interface cartoonish (just an opinion, don't have a cow .)

So Cubase became my default music program. I think it's a stetch to say that Cubase is immediately intuitve, but it was always logical to me and as my experience with it grew it I came to really love it. I've hung in with every upgrade to the present.

About a year ago I discovered Live 4. It looked interesting and since I had some extra cash at the time I thought I'd give it a try.

Unbelieveable!!! As I learned Live it was like someone had been in my head and fianlly understood how I thought about music production in non-linear form. The improv capabilities are incredible. The only analogy I can make is simialr to when I first learned photography. Initially as I took photographs my creative control was around content and composition. As I learned darkroom techniques, however, I add the ability to see each photograph as an almost infinite set of possibiites.

Live is like that for me. It allows me to create in ways that, although not impossible, is not as immediately intuitve in other hosts. Its midi may be behind some others but it is the first place I go for audio recording. Truth be told, since Live 5 Ihaven't even opened Cubase except to install the recent update.

Just my .02

Dan

[headquest]

Hi Greg

I have to admit, I find it impossible to understand how people can make tracks with raw audio in Live. Ie, a guitar, a voice, a bass track. I know Live CAN be non-pattern, but it doesn't seem to make it easy. It's almost like to get any fun out of it, you need to be using loops. I don't think in terms of loops. That doesn't mean I never USE loops, but I don't arrange a song in terms of loops.

Greg

Multitrack audio recording in Ableton is an absolute breeze. It is similar (if not better ) to Tracktion in this respect...

For what you want to do, this is the simple method:

1) Go to Arrange View
2) Activate a track to record by simply pressing the (obvious) record button at the right end of the track lane (where "Filters" go in Tracktion)
3) Activate Record on the transport/Hit the space bar
4) Play music!
5) Hit the space bar to stop

Job done!

To add audio effects (Ableton's own ones are excellent and I highly recommend them... but also VSTs of course...) simply drag them from the browser on the left, and drop them over the track. Their properties open in the lower part of the screen, and are ordered from left to right in the order that they will process the signal (you can swap them around by drag/drop, of course)

Automation can be drawn in exactly the same way as Tracktion, too. All the various parameters show up to the right of the track lane.

You can mix directly in Arrange view - again, this exactly the same as Tracktion, except that all the numerical date is displayed right there, rather than elsewhere on the screen

In Session View you can easily assign Send/Return tracks in the mixer view.

I hope this helps. I know you are already happy with Tracktion, but I think you would enjoy simply trying this out using the demo version.

Cheers!

[ermi]

You made me go to their site and watch the videos.
(Every host should have demo videos, SONAR TOO!)


I didn't see all of them yet, but from what I saw it seems very nice.

It seems like you can do a lot of stuff like 30-40% faster than in Cubase.
In this regard, to me, similar to Renoise. (But Renoise is (just) a tracker. For now.)

[headquest]

You made me go to their site and watch the videos.
(Every host should have demo videos, SONAR TOO!)

DId you watch the Kid Beyond one? Very different!!

I didn't see all of them yet, but from what I saw it seems very nice.

Try the demo... it actually comes with a set of getting started tutorials onscreen, which I would say are essential to work through. Very clear, and they will answer any initial questions you have about Live. It is *different*, and I think sometimes people try the demo, ignore the tutorials, and give up, wondering what all the fuss is about!

It seems like you can do a lot of stuff like 30-40% faster than in Cubase.

Even faster than that once you get the hang of it, I would say (and I'm ex-Cubase myself )

In this regard, to me, similar to Renoise. (But Renoise is (just) a tracker. For now.)

I downloaded a demo of that a few weeks ago and still haven't had the chance to unzip and install it. I guess I was just curious is all