tracktion mixer

[valley]

Yes, some people like not having a mixer window and it aids their workflow. My point is, why are some people so negative about adding a mixer? Why is giving people a choice rather than no choice received so badly by some Tracktion users?

Two reasons probably:

1) early discussions on the subject tended towards the 'scrap the whole track system and get a proper mixer' line, which really depresses any Tracktion user who has ever queued up a track with multiple vol/pans, post and pre-fade effects, a shared rack filter or two, and another level meter somewhere in the middle to keep an eye on things.

2) Tracktion has need of a whole bunch of features, of which a mixer should logically be some way down the list. Whilst you may not like mixing in Tracktion right now, you can do it. You can't, for example, stitch automation to clips though. Some features that are entirely lacking should perhaps have a higher development priority than those are just in need of tidying up.

Well, as pointed out above, you misread what I said. The whole optional thing should have been obvious, as pretty much all the software that has a mixer available offers the option of not using it...Sonar and Cubase allow you to mix without ever opening the mixer window; Live is one of the few that comes to mind where the mixer is not optional.

AFAICR though, the mixerless functionaility (much like in place editing) arrived in those sequencers after Tracktion was released. Certainly I don't recall VST5 being especially easy to get anything done in without a honking great mixer window across my screen. I could be wrong on this though.

I don't believe anyone is asking for Tracktion to change it's overall workflow to mimic that of other applications.

You'd be surprised. See point number one above.

As in, you mentioned the colour of cars and then mentioned the darkness of FL's interface (implying the colour of it), which is where the more than once thing comes in. Anyway, this is not important and is a side point to the stuff mentioned above.

Actually the colour of FL isn't really the issue, as I can change that if I want to waste a few days. My problem with FL is the smallness of everything. I'd be quite happy for it to be black and grey if the controls where 30% larger. Again, that's a personal choice thing though. Some people find Tracktion to be 'fisher price' looking.

[valley]

PS, the TB303 pun went right over my head

TB303 threads (along with Virus and trance threads) used to have a nasty a habit of turning into flamewars.

[djsubject]

thanx, i get it now

off to start a TB303 thread

[xylyx]

Two reasons probably:

1) early discussions on the subject tended towards the 'scrap the whole track system and get a proper mixer' line, which really depresses any Tracktion user who has ever queued up a track with multiple vol/pans, post and pre-fade effects, a shared rack filter or two, and another level meter somewhere in the middle to keep an eye on things.

Well, that wouldn't be what I would like to see. All that would achieve is satisfying one group to the detriment or another. Satisfying both camps is possible in this case and would be the best course.

2) Tracktion has need of a whole bunch of features, of which a mixer should logically be some way down the list. Whilst you may not like mixing in Tracktion right now, you can do it. You can't, for example, stitch automation to clips though. Some features that are entirely lacking should perhaps have a higher development priority than those are just in need of tidying up.

I can understand that point of view (Lunch Money pretty much said the same sort of thing in his post) and there are certainly other things that I would like to see in Tracktion as well. I can accept that some people want a mixer lower in the list priorities for future updates and the reason you list above is a good reason.

AFAICR though, the mixerless functionaility (much like in place editing) arrived in those sequencers after Tracktion was released. Certainly I don't recall VST5 being especially easy to get anything done in without a honking great mixer window across my screen. I could be wrong on this though.

Can't comment on Cubase, but Sonar 1 allowed you to do this with track envelopes and some were happily doing entire mixes from within the track view (so around 2000, I guess). Subsequent versions have made doing this even easier with the 'channel strip' down the left.

I don't believe anyone is asking for Tracktion to change it's overall workflow to mimic that of other applications.

You'd be surprised. See point number one above.

Fair enough, I shouldn't have spoken for others. As mentioned above, I think it would be wrong to change the basic workflow of Tracktion.

[Lunch Money]

While we are on sensitive subjects I would actually like to be able to run Tracktion in a mode that would allow more floating windows. There are time when mixing and recording that it is nice to be able to have many views of plug-ins open and be able to spread them out over two monitors. It would also be nice to be able to make the track views bigger by putting the output filters on a second monitor. Things like that would be nice for us that are used to dual monitor setups.

You can do both these things. As valley mentioned, the "lock" button on the VST plug-in allows you to keep it in place and move it to the second monitor.

If you press the 'un-maximize' (whatever that button is actually called-- not the minimize but the other one that goes to the last known user-set size) button, you can just stretch the whole application into the second monitor.

Greg

[ruwaldo]

While we are on sensitive subjects I would actually like to be able to run Tracktion in a mode that would allow more floating windows. There are time when mixing and recording that it is nice to be able to have many views of plug-ins open and be able to spread them out over two monitors. It would also be nice to be able to make the track views bigger by putting the output filters on a second monitor. Things like that would be nice for us that are used to dual monitor setups.

You can do both these things. As valley mentioned, the "lock" button on the VST plug-in allows you to keep it in place and move it to the second monitor.

If you press the 'un-maximize' (whatever that button is actually called-- not the minimize but the other one that goes to the last known user-set size) button, you can just stretch the whole application into the second monitor.

Greg

I have done this before as you describe. I came to Tracktion after using Sonar where you could move all the elements of your environment to where ever you wanted them. I could setup one screen with all my tracks on it and then run all my input/output metering and plug-ins on the second screen. I understand that there are people that like the "one screen" layout but it would be nice if Tracktion could be ran in a different "mode" that would allow the user to layout things the way that worked best for their project.

[Lunch Money]

A certain amount of layout flexibility would be cool... I'm just not sure what would be needed. Each major "chunk" of the screen detachable and re-lockable I guess? I don't know.

[Mr. Tingle]

It's for your own good, no mixer!

[t3]

One very personal point regarding all that...

I'm using and loving T since T1 came out *because* of its lack of a "mixer" and because its simple, clean and easy intuitive yet fixed layout.

Hence it brought me back to just *make* music because of all this! Since I sold all my external equipment years ago and focused on doing all of my stuff using a PC, I totally get pissed off (making music) using Logic and Cubase. Some times I found myself minutes and minutes of changing window sizes, arrangigng popups, etc.pp. just to edit an FX setting. This was ever frustrating and kept me away from doing music at last.

Then I found T and it was a revelation from the first minute on. It was no longer more time-consuming to add a synth and search for a sound or to just find the right mixer-window and the button to make it audible then to record some 80 bars keyboard-solo to a MIDI track (like it was in the "old days" when you just switched the gear on and everything was in place ).

Since then T was the tool for me. As I said: This is a very personal opinion. Because (of course) it depends lots on what you do and how your workflow is.

At last 2 things to mention to this "mixer-thing": If there was none in T (a mixer), we won't hear anything at all, won't we?

...and if it's about the orientation: If I rotate my LCD 90° to the right it gets as close to a traditonal mixer-setup as it can get! )

And please; Don't take me to serious - I love T
(but have some friends too loving it because of the same reasons, what makes me think I'm not completly wrong, so...)

just my 2c

[zOap]

As it was pointed out earlier, nothing more than 5% in the BIG FR vote made by Rock voted for Mixer Implementation.

Tracktion have never had a mixer, there is alot of other choices out there. If you deslike the fact that Tracktion does not have a mixer, go buy yourself another software. It is that simple.

Btw, I know that the mixer issue is always a war. And we all know that this always end in tears, and people shouting at eachother through the keyboard. So why even bother? We've had the vote, the people have spoken. If it is that big of a deal we can always ask Rock to take a new vote, then you'll see; the majority of the users DON'T want a mixer, they want other more important things.

Remember, just because you are part of the minority that shouldn't automagically turn it into a majority.

I'm fed up with this issue. Hell yeah, a mixer button would be cool, then I can have it turned off, but a vote is a vote, and the software engineers have prolly their own "vote". Maybe they want pigs to fly, I dunno.

[lharless]

do me a favor. open tracktion. look at the screen. look up in the top right corner of tracktion. see the "racks" button? press and press again. see that box opening up? good! imagine a second button beside the "racks" button. this button would open the same window, but it would contain a little mixer of some kind.

this shouldn't be hard, and you don't even have to use it if you don't want to look at it. no second screen, no floating window. no bitchin'.

done.

lee

[lharless]

ill be using T2 for an upcoming album project. all of which will be audio. we'll see how effective this thing is come february when we pass off to the mastering lab. will we make our deadline? will we have to import to another software? time will tell.

im putting alof of faith in this program for this project. i certainly hope it does the deed.

a mixer would make it perfect. im just wondering what 24 channels is going to be like to mix with this "filter" mixer that we have now. ill give anything a chance once. if this works and it improves my workflow, ill stop bitching altogether about the mixer, and ill join the cockblockers against it.

love
lee

[AD80]

no bitchin'.

done.

lee

If that mixer gets in the way of us getting more important features ( I say more important becuase we can already mix perfectly in Tracktion as it is so its pointless to add yet another mixer just to please the old school folks who are impressed by lots of knobs and sliders) Then there will be PLENTY of bitching. We need folder tracks, we need lockable track sizes, we need clip bassed automation, we need ghost clips, we dont need a mixer. It would add no extra functionality.

[lharless]

i actually understand the last comment. but i really hope that the new programmers can handle more than a few chores at once. we're talking about programmerS, not one programmeR. if they need it, they can hire another couple of people to code. that's a drop in the bucket for mackie.

but i certainly hear your comment and can sympathize with it.

[lharless]

i gotta get some rest. ill check back in on you kids in a couple days.

have a nice one.