after everything else, who likes Live 5?

[noetic]

I use Live a lot. I think of it as a very powerful and unique multi-track audio/loop editor. Creating interesting grooves is quick and intuitive. I don't use any third-party fx (only built-in), and I don't use impulse or simpler. I'm not looking to replace DP as my main daw, but Live is a wonderful complement to my arsenal of tools.

[Gwydi]

what does this mean? i really don't get this...

To answer by way of example ... a ridiculously simple subtractive synth would have;

An oscillator, consisting of a waveform control and a range control.
A low-pass filter, consisting of a cutoff control and a resonance control.
A master volume control.

Let's say I implement this synth in software. On the GUI I have a knob for each of those five controls.

As the developer, it's my choice whether I "expose" these controls to the host (Live, Cubase, etc) or not, in other words whether the host is aware that they exist or not.

If I expose them, it's almost certainly because I want the host to be able to control them by midi CCs. Some controls should obviously fall into this category - filter cutoff, for example.

Some developers assign default midi CCs to all exposed controls, some assign them to only crucial often-automated things like filter parameters, and some don't assign defaults at all.

Furthermore, some synths allow you to choose your own midi CC assignment for each control but others do not. If it is allowed, chances are that some form of "midi learn" is implemented, which means that you select a control and send a midi cc message to the synth and the synth assigns the midi cc it received to that control.

With me so far?

On many synths, exposed controls also *send* automation data in CC format which the host can record. So if you're recording automation from a softsynth and you use your mouse to adjust a knob on the GUI, that knob transmits automation data to the host which the host records, and when the host replays that data back to the synth, the knob movement you made is replicated.

As you correctly state, the midi specification only allows for 128 midi CCs. In our very simple example, that's more than enough to map one hardware knob to each control.

However, a lot of synths these days have *oodles* of controls that can be automated - for example, Arturia's CS80 has something like 540.

On most hosts, all of the available automatable parameters are visible, and therefore you can record or draw automation for any or all of them.

However, in Live, only the *first* 128 parameters in the list are visible in Live. So if, for example, Filter Cutoff happens to be the 135th parameter, you simply can't control or automate it in Live using midi ccs or envelopes, nor will Live record any movements of that control you make on the synth's GUI. As far as Live is concerned, there is no Filter Cutoff parameter.

Hopefully that's clear without being insultingly simple!

[obstgegenrechz]

what makes live 5 unique for me is the way you can compose and/or jam with this piece of software. just add a vsti or click a drumloop and start recording my guitar...
ahh dealing with effects is easy too.

for recording and mixing it is hard to use i think....
but when you got eXT... no problem... just add energyXT as an insert an start to record midi/audio in eXT! so, then you port your song part for part in energy...
easy!

[mckenic]

REALLY like it for guitar tracking!

I wish the midi side of things were different but as it is I'd give it a 9/10...

HTH

Dave

How do you use it for guitar tracks, Dave? I have had no success recording guitar with L4 or L5.

Best,
Gordon

Yeah, coming from cubase SX I find the midi in live a bit of a head scratcher... Im getting better but as folks have mentioned for quickly doing loops and jams it rox.

What trouble are you having Gordon? As long as your i/o button is lit and you specify the correct input for guitar (with the track record armed of course)... your away!

Feel free to drop me a PM and we could go through it - its more than worth the effort. You'll be AMAZED how easy it is and how much like a tape 4 track it acts!!!

Dave

[Alien Leg]

The Ableton guys have explicitly said on their forum that they will address the 128 parameter automation limit! You won't be able to view more than 128 parameter, but you will be able to assign all of them! Of course nobody knows when, but many hope for Live 6.

[EoN604]

I think it's brilliant. It IS innovative, and one could say it allows creativity to flow more efficiently. Having said that, I stick with Cubase SX, as I know it well, and I still consider it much more solid. To me, live is good for 'live' (funny that) and Cubase much tighter for production. I don't know the technicalities of live, it may well be the midi, but something just feels not as precise.

[headquest]

Not sure if I totally understand the thread title, (after what else?), but...

I love Live

Quite simply I find it the fastest environment for composing. It really is possible to create whole tracks from scratch in real time, and I think that makes it different from most other sequencers. For me it is a more musical and intuitive process because you can experiment with the musical elements as music and more quickly make choices based on listening.

Also, the Session View makes it a fantastic environment for making arrangements, remixes, etc, as well as live performance of course.

As a full-on primary host there's very little that Live can't already do (although I still have a place for Sonar here). When Live 6 is released (expect a full announcement by the end of this month ) it will be interesting to see if LIve fully conquers in the DAW stakes of course.

[Beardedone]

Beardedone wrote:

How do you use it for guitar tracks, Dave? I have had no success recording guitar with L4 or L5.

Best,
Gordon


I'm not Dave, but what troubles are you having with guitar recording and Live, Gordon? I absolutely love Live for guitar recording to the point that I don't even fire up SX3 for any kind of tracking any more. On bigger projects I may wind up rewiring Live into Cubase for final mixing or mastering but Live gives me such flexiblity for composition and arranging. Like bluedad it has become one of my two go-to applications.

Clearly it is not as feature rich for midi as Cubase but my midi need are pretty modest. For audio it is incredible - comping, rearranging, warping - it's flexibility and ease of routing are the best.

Let me know if you have any particulars that I can answer for you.

Dan

Is is not the I/O that is causing me problems, it's recording in the traditional sense in a linear way that I cannot get going. I can never get it to sync in time. I recordi into a session slot but it ends up that I have to always edit it. This is a non-issue n Sonar. Sonar works like a tape machine. So how do I record a guitar part so that it fits in an arrangement in Live 5?

Cheers,
Gordon

[bluedad]

[

Is is not the I/O that is causing me problems, it's recording in the traditional sense in a linear way that I cannot get going. I can never get it to sync in time. I recordi into a session slot but it ends up that I have to always edit it. This is a non-issue n Sonar. Sonar works like a tape machine. So how do I record a guitar part so that it fits in an arrangement in Live 5?

Cheers,
Gordon

well have you tried recording in the arrangement view? That's more like a linear approach.

[Beardedone]

No I haven't yet Gary. I have only used the session view as it is a unique Live feature that at least for midi comping works well for me. For audio the arrangement view has only served me when I have performed & recorded an arrangement in seesion view. I am not sure I see what would be the advantage of recording the arrangement view when I may as well do it Sonar. Sonar is a lot more flexible and certainly more familiar. Actually if I am woring in Live, I record and edit guitar clips in Sonar and import them into Live. This appproach is a lot less troublesome for me than recording into clips. It's what works for me. It is cumbersome though.

Cheers,
Gordon

[machinesworking]

[

Is is not the I/O that is causing me problems, it's recording in the traditional sense in a linear way that I cannot get going. I can never get it to sync in time. I recordi into a session slot but it ends up that I have to always edit it. This is a non-issue n Sonar. Sonar works like a tape machine. So how do I record a guitar part so that it fits in an arrangement in Live 5?

Cheers,
Gordon

well have you tried recording in the arrangement view? That's more like a linear approach.

I think you're getting problems from the quantization setting you have set up. Remember, in Live quantization works as a sort of pre filter with clip firing. Set the record quantization to to none.

[Beardedone]

bluedad wrote:
Beardedone wrote:
[

Is is not the I/O that is causing me problems, it's recording in the traditional sense in a linear way that I cannot get going. I can never get it to sync in time. I recordi into a session slot but it ends up that I have to always edit it. This is a non-issue n Sonar. Sonar works like a tape machine. So how do I record a guitar part so that it fits in an arrangement in Live 5?

Cheers,
Gordon

well have you tried recording in the arrangement view? That's more like a linear approach.

I think you're getting problems from the quantization setting you have set up. Remember, in Live quantization works as a sort of pre filter with clip firing. Set the record quantization to to none.

Hmmm. I don't thinks I did that. I'll have a look tonight.

Thanks Machinesworking!

Best,
Gordon

[headquest]

For straight-forward linear recording projects, Sonar is definitely less hassle (although Live is quite capable). It also offeres better editing tools and great audio effects (Sonitus Suite, Perfect Space, V-Vocal, etc).

For recording stuff in Live I would recommend the following:

* Options > Preferences > Defaults tab: Clip Defaults - HQ "on", Loop/Warp short samples "unwarped one-shot", Auto Warp long samples "off".

* Options > Preferences > Misc. tab: Behavior, count-in "2 bars"

MIDI clips - create clip and switch off quantise grid before recording/overdubbing it.

I hope this helps.

[Beardedone]

This helps a great deal Headquest. I hate the manual since I have to read it on screen.

Thanks,
Gordon

[dgkenney]

Is is not the I/O that is causing me problems, it's recording in the traditional sense in a linear way that I cannot get going. I can never get it to sync in time.
Cheers,
Gordon

Hmmmm...at first blush I am tempted to say it is a latency/monitoring issue while recording. Not knowing your set-up I would first try the various monitoring options (in/auto/off) to see if that fixes the timing problem. Other thoughts are to try a lower buffer size for recording or the PDC setting.

If none of those work, and it is a latency/monitoring problem, a simple fix is to move the 1st playback warp marker to align with your first beat. The entire track should then be in perfect time (at least if you played it in perfect time ) The advantages you will realize in comping and arranging will more than make up for this one time effort.

Dan