Software has NEVER ACHIEVED Decent Guitar Distortion. Nope.

[SARcazm]

As I mentioned on another thread, the Citrus (Orange) amp sim that comes with Ver 3 of PODxt is a great amp that can be set up to distort depending on how hard you play. Amazing sound. Adding the Bronze stomp works well too.
I have to agree that some of the other distortions included are OTT, however, taking time out to really work with the settings does provide dividends in the long run.
I have an ancient Yamaha GS with a PAF pickup and pretty much use only the Citrus and JTM45 amps. Sounds fine to my ears and far better than most VST dist I've tried.
Still, each to their own.

[Sascha Franck]

Ok, it's fairly late (almost 5am) and I'm fairly drunken as well (err... yes, sorry).

FWIW, on the hardware side of things I own a Fender Twin, a Boogie Mark IV, a Soldano SP-77 preamp, a Mesa V-Twin preamp and several other gizmos (<quite some list of pedals here>) to enhance the sound coming out of them.
I have also owned Marshalls, older Twins, older Boogies, an Orange and what not (And, in case you're curious: I sold most of them for laughable prices. Yes, slap me! BIG time even!).
On the digital side of things I am currently (ab)using Guitar Rig 2, all the freebies out there, a POD (mind you, version 1), a VAmp, a rusty GT-5 and probably some gadgets I forgot, due to my state of mind (did I mention I'm quite drunken?).

In addition, I have given almost all tools out there a more or less serious testride (if not even owning them for a while). I mean, that's what my living is based on. Playing guitars that is.

Alright. Whatever. Some name/brand dropping but no facts of whatever evidence yet.
Anyways, I'll try to get to the point (because, errrr... yes, I'm feeling seriously knackered), so let's just think about it for a minute:
WHAT is a "decent distorted guitar sound"?

I mean, really, who is it telling you that digital distortion isn't "decent"?
Did anybody ever listen to Robert Fripps guitar work on whatever King Crimson albums? Listen to, say, "Discipline". Would you describe that as a "decently distorted" guitar sound? I'm sure that anybody releasing an amp sim sounding even remotely close to that would get his ass kicked freaking big time!
Does everybody and his mum praise Fripp, Belew and some others (along the lines of Carlos Alomar, Bill Frisell, Reeves Gabrels and whomever) for their revolutionary work regarding guitar sounds nonetheless? Abso-f**king-lutely!
Now, it's not that any of those dudes is famous for "digital" sounds. Those Frippertronics were all analog, from what I seem to remember. Yet, they don't "establish" anything near a "commonly decent" distorted guitar tone.

So, what's my POV?
Personally, I'm pretty much of a "standard" guitar player when it comes to doing my job. Yet, I'm always looking for new ways of enhancing my sonic options. And THAT'S when digital stuff comes in!
While you may not be able to get your vintage "role model" guitar sounds out of ampsims yet (I'm almost 100% sure it'll happen one day), you can get a SHITLOAD of "never heard before" sounds out of them. Why not take advance of it? Is it just because guitars are expected to sound like this or that? Imagine you were a keyboard player. Would you just stick to traditional sounds as well, even if there's WORLDS of new things to explore? Wouldn't that be quite a limitation regarding your sonic arsenal?

In addition: Why are people expecting all sorts of "decent distorted guitar sounds" all at their disposal at once all of a sudden?
When I started taking things more seriously, I had to decide on one amp. Back then, 2- or 3-channel amps have been the top of the crop. And that was about it. Usually, at least one of those 3 channels would suck anyways.
To get a decent sound for a recording, you had to add quite something to the setup. Mics, a proper console - and let's not forget the room, allowing for the amps in question to be cranked up.

Now, while I DO believe that in the more or less distant future we WILL see some quite accurate emulations of hardware amps, we're apparently not there yet.
But, why don't we just take advance of what we already have? Sure, you can't get that Hendrix or SRV sound out of ampsims yet. But then, WHO has ever been close to that sound BEFORE the arrival of all that digital stuff? Did you really own a proper Marshall and a vintage Strat? Did you have access to some great mics and a recording booth? If yes: Why do you even bother? If no: Why would you expect whatever software to do it for you all of a sudden?

Anyways, my bottomline: As long as we're not there, why not making use of the currently available things, even if they may not sound like the "real deal" but entirely different?

And quite another thing, considering that I'm more or less of a traditional player as well: Just a day or two ago I downloaded something by someone from here, I think his KVR nick is "Niksounds". He's using Waves GTR, and I think that's been the most convincing simulation I've heard so far (probably not by the playing, but hey, I'm a picky bastard). Just the same thought I had when listening to the demos on their site.

Bleh... I'd love to continue typing some shit, but I'm outta here for now. Remember: Alcohol's your best friend!

[stayne]

interesting: http://nalbantov.muzikant.org/

[Empty Uranus]

Sacsha -

In a word - balls. The more distorion you use, the harder a "good" sound is to get, IMO. I'm not talking SRV distortion - I'm talking Iommi distortion. And while Hendrix and SRV had their moments of extreme distortion ('sup Voodoo Chile), to me, it's always been easier to get a decent distorted sound out of a Strat than most any double coil (Paul, etc.) type guitar.

However - when you finally dial that double coil in - nothing's better.

These little boxes in our computers just aren't big enough to quite do that.

I'm not knocking all of them. Many of the ones I've tried thus far get rather nice clean to slightly distorted sounds, but I know I tried one of the JCM900 thingies yesterday, giggled at it, and deleted it off my system.

Just seems to get a nice, BALLSY, yet smooth, MEGA crunchy sound, you still gotta have the real thing.

I think one thing people sort of forget about is how damned important the SPEAKER is! I've yet to hear any of these things give a good Celestion tone (in my ears). The "wood" sound of the guitar just seems lacking to me.

I'm 42, so I'm still set in some of my ways. You know - "If it ain't got heat, it ain't worth sheet".

(I'm sure I'll come around some day, guys. )

And yes - my daddy told me to never trust a guy who didn't drink, so I try to do that as professionally as I possibly can.

Cheers!

[Spe3D]

Sacsha -

In a word - balls.

Are you kidding? I thought that was a pretty good post by Sacsha - kind of summed it up well.

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

[xander]

I have tried Guitar Rig, Line 6 Vox, Boss, just about everything I know of, and I have never found a single distortion vst even that comes close to a $29 Digitech stomp from Guitar Center.

Not even close.

I'd even pay serious money for one if I could find it. So far, I think Helian free amp sounds best.

Please prove me wrong.

But, what sound card / PC Audio device are you using to judge the software?

What does your PC audio chain look like / consist of?

Unless you're comparing your stomp's audio path (guitar/stomp/amp) with a fair equivalent of it in your PC then you're never gonna know...

[juha_p]

The DSound's GT Player does give quite good sounding results --> http://www.dsound1.com/products/index_en.htm

Juha

[psychopractor]

Funny thing is that the whole concept behind DIGItech is that all their products are DIGItal...

\m/ PodXT Live with metal shop kicks your ass \m/

Actually the Bad Monkey is a purely analog, true bypass unit.

[Trevor Jackson]

I've gone out and tried most of what people have mentioned here.

To my ear...nothing (no VST) sounds as good as a $29 Bad Monkey.

By the way: I NEVER SAID THE BAD MONKEY WAS THAT GREAT.

I only said it was acceptable and I'd be happy to find a VST that could equal it.

I did find ONE decent patch in my travels, though. It's called "Warp". It has three patches - a JC chorus, a Plexi and a Mesa. The JC and Plexi are only so-so. The Mesa is the best distortion I have found in a VST. It's $50. Unless you guys can come with a better idea, it looks like that's what I'm gonna buy.

One other note, though: everywhere else on this site, people are unfailingly polite. Start a thread aiimed at guitarists and it turns into a roach motel.



Clean it up guys, You're making us look bad.

Funny thing is that the whole concept behind DIGItech is that all their products are DIGItal...

\m/ PodXT Live with metal shop kicks your ass \m/

Actually the Bad Monkey is a purely analog, true bypass unit.

[Trevor Jackson]

Thanks, I'll have a listen.

The DSound's GT Player does give quite good sounding results --> http://www.dsound1.com/products/index_en.htm

Juha

[Spe3D]

The voxengo boogex sounds fairly good for a free sim.

Yes its very cool disto plug and free at that - I use it a lot on percussion.

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1818.html

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

[The Chase]

While you may not be able to get your vintage "role model" guitar sounds out of ampsims yet (I'm almost 100% sure it'll happen one day), you can get a SHITLOAD of "never heard before" sounds out of them. Why not take advance of it?

We have a winner!

If you dont think computers can give you a great distortion, talk to people like squarepusher who have created truly innovative music that way.

P.S. Digitech suuuuuuucks big time (for teh most part). Freeware distortions beat the bottom half of them.

[guitarzan]

I did find ONE decent patch in my travels, though. It's called "Warp". It has three patches - a JC chorus, a Plexi and a Mesa. The JC and Plexi are only so-so. The Mesa is the best distortion I have found in a VST. It's $50. Unless you guys can come with a better idea, it looks like that's what I'm gonna buy.

Warp huh...are you sure you tried FreeAmp SE 1.5 (2 should be out any day now)? Try all the presets and tweak the ones that you like - I am sure you can do as well as Warp. Another free one that might do the Warp thing is Dirthead ( http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... sc&start=0 ) on the Ultra channel.

[Sascha Franck]

I did find ONE decent patch in my travels, though. It's called "Warp". It has three patches - a JC chorus, a Plexi and a Mesa. The JC and Plexi are only so-so. The Mesa is the best distortion I have found in a VST. It's $50. Unless you guys can come with a better idea, it looks like that's what I'm gonna buy.

See, and that's the very reason why us guitarists will never agree on what a great tone is.
I'm not telling you to not like Warp, I'm not saying it's shit or something either, but to my ears all you can get out of it sounds like utter garbage.
Each to their own I suppose...


And btw, Empty Uranus, I never said anything against (or in favour of) "balls". I may have another perception of what "balls" means to me, though.


Anyways, as far as the recent development goes, I don't think there's much in software land that would actually make me think about replacing my hardware amps. Heck, in autumn or winter I'll even do a MASSIVE investment of both time and money by building a freaking 2x12" or even 4x12" dead box (speaker cab inside a f**king huge isolation box), including an assortment of different speakers and mics, most likely even buying a dedicated amp, a decent mic mixer and what not.
But that's all because of two reasons:
- I'm as much of a conservative idiot as almost all guitar players seem to be.
- Due to my job I'm expected to come up with certain traditional guitar sounds.

Yet, what I'm saying is that you gotta make the best use out of what we have - and you CAN actually get some quite useful tones out of software amp sims. And you can get MUCH more out of them as well.
My next live rig will be based around a laptop. It's not gonna replace the "real" live rig (Mark IV with a few pedals 'n shit), but I'm gonna use it for a) convenience (smaller commercial jobs, musical stuff, etc...) and b) experimental stuff, something I quite like as well.

And fwiw, it pretty much looks as if I'll be purchasing a Line6 TonePort as well (as if I wouldn't have enough of all that stuff already...), simply because there seem to be some sounds coming with it that I haven't found in other similarily convenient solutions yet.

[Sascha Franck]

And btw, as an addon: I would REALLY like trying out Waves GTR. But having to have a dongle to try out a 14 day demo?!? Pathetic! Let alone the fact that there's no dongle even coming close to any machine I'll be using live. Dongles just suck.

And btw #2: It's freaking hot and last nights alcohol shows up... in other words: I'm sweating like a pig (just that pigs don't sweat, from what I know).