Uhbik

[teacue]

Actually, Zebra and MFM2 are the most complicated contenders for surround... i.e. it's somewhat difficult to come up with a clever way to distribute 5.0/5.1/7.0/7.1 channel layouts to 4 delay lines in MFM2. Add to that, some seem to put a lot of music on the center channel, others don't. There doesn't seem to be a consistent set of rules as to how surround is being used.

For now I'm more or less working in directions that "keep stereo" across the speaker arrangements (as opposed to "multi mono" plugins) until more feedback from users comes in...

I am glad that you answer and to see that you take this seriously.
I am just in the middle of finishing the mix of a whole Musical in Stereo and in 5.1 surround (this is the second Musical I mix in surround) and my approach to surround changes with every new song I have to mix.

On the first musical I mixed in surround I was very "sparsam" with the Center channel.
In the actual production I finally discover the big difference between Phantom Center and Center.
I find personally great that there are no rules then it forces you to be creative.

I like the idea of keeping Stereo acroos the speakers arrangement but it should not be limited to standard configuration like L+R or sL+sR but to any kind of configuration like L+sL or L+C or L+sR and so on.
Also the stereo image should be movable as it is through the whole speaker field.
The ideal being to be able to smoothly and continuously move a stereo image , beginning from L+R all around in circle.
I find it quite incredible that for example with the Surround Panner of Cubase (and Nuendo) it is simply not possible to move a stereo source arround the surround space!
You always have to use this X or Y symetry or make a mono source!
Both break any stereo image.

About surround with an instrument like Zebra, I would like to be able to separate the several components that makes a sound through the surround space.
For such purpose the instrument should have his own intern Surround Panner and give the 5.1 (or whatever) output in the host through a dedicated 5.1 track.
I am not involved in the programming of Zebra (there are so much wonderfull presets) but I mean something like it should be possible to place each oscillator separately everywhere in the surround field.
Also the effects applied to an oscillator should be able to be separetly placed in the surround field.
I find that it really makes sense and it can be a very beautiful thing to separate the components of a sound through the surround space.
But indeed a pure multi-mono is not so nice (though it should be possible too) but a smooth "Verteilung" from one speaker to the other.

BTW AcousModules plugs show very well what can be done about the position in the surround field.

About MFM2 or any effect, I think one important thing is how to deal with the incoming signal (either from aux send or from insert).
In the effect self it should be possible to route the incoming signal wherever one needs.
And again not only to a mono output but with also as described before.
Then for the 4 Delay lines, they should be able to go everywhere also through an intern Surround Panner.

To resume, I do believe that the most important thing with Multichannel VSTi or FX is that the Plug itself has his own Surround Panner with as flexible as possible input and output routing, that's all
Then the final output goes to a dedicated surround track in the host and one does not have to deal with eventuel limited surround ability of the host.

I would be glad to give you more feedback if it is usefull for you.

Ahem, I believe I was quite off topic, sorry but there are not enough people talking about surround here.

Best regards

[Urs]

Thanks, teacue - interesting thoughts!

Uhbik and the T-device are first of all supposed to apply their effects on 1-8 channels regardless of any spatial issues. I.e. 5.1 is mostly six channels input and six channels output and the process is evenly applied to these. Uhbik-F and Uhbik-P however have channel-dependent modulations which can create an "offset" between channels. In these cases it's important to make good assumptions about the spatial position of the speakers.

I'm not too excited about adding surround-panning and stuff to the plugins as long as surround is rather an exception. The plugs are fully valid stereo plugins and I don't want users to think that they can't fully use their power in "only stereo" environments. I think it's crucial for the time being to say "these plugs also work in surround" rather than "if you don't have surround, you can use them on stereo tracks".

I suppose that one day I'll move into a new workplace that can be equipped with surround gear. Unfortunately my current place is already pretty stuffed so I wouldn't want to add another speaker system. But then I suppose that I have a lot of feedback from the surround community and can work this out on a different level!

Later,

Urs