LX122 - New Leslie Simulation by Xils-Lab

[vic_france]

Just for the fun, there's nothing to win, but the first who will post the exact time signature of this track will win a smile and my eternal admiration

LtZ

I'm going with 7/8

[Brother Charles]

@vic_france:

Have you compared LX122 with the leslie on amplitube?

I've just done a very quick comparison..
1) A phrase played on the VB3, using its own Leslie
2) The same phrase, same VB3, but with the Leslie switched off, and LX122 inserted on the output of VB3
3) Same as #2, but with Guitar Rig 5 (needed a bit of beefing up, so the chain is.. Cat Distortion>Rotator Cabinet>Rotator
4) Same as #2, but with Amplitube 3 (also a bit disappointing without added drive)..ProDrive>Leslie cabinet.
I didn't take the time to try to match them all up, just did my best to get each one sounding .
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42036960/Test_Leslies.mp3

It's true that Guido really, really nailed an awesome sound with his Leslie sim in VB3 ver. 1.4. However, I was just wondering, are we comparing the 147 against the 122, or was the 122 model also used in VB3? I noticed a very pleasant full-range quality in the VB3 Leslie snippet. I liked the LX122, but it does sound more "choked" and "mid-rangey" in this sample. That being said, I often had to haul the 4' bar back on the old '63 B3 that I used to play at Cornerstone Community in Edmonton, AB. It was connected to an old 122. I do prefer the LX122 over the Amplitude offering. The truth is, all (3) are certainly much better than what we had to work with a few short years ago.

I'm looking forward to really dissecting LX122 Premium in the near future. I'm going to really put it through its paces with both VB3 and also NI Vintage Organs.

I'm not a Hammond/Leslie expert, but it is interesting to note that it could be said that many of the old blues and rock guys would never have even heard of Hammond/Leslie if it weren't for the old-time Gospel players. Most cool blues licks find their roots directly in ol' skool Gospel. No offense, Jimmy Smith, Ethel Waters, and Barbara Dennerlein fans.

Personally, I really like a clean Leslie tone. Maybe it's the difference between squeaky clean Robert Cray tone vs. gritty Clapton tone. I really like both.

[vic_france]

.. I was just wondering, are we comparing the 147 against the 122, or was the 122 model also used in VB3? I noticed a very pleasant full-range quality in the VB3 Leslie snippet. I liked the LX122, but it does sound more "choked" and "mid-rangey" in this sample.

The VB3 Leslie is the "Rock" 147
The possible "choked" sound of the LX122 is because of the Room settings I used (couldn't resist ).. I could have miked the cab up a bit closer
The cabinet in Guitar Rig is the logical combination of the Rotator Horn open, and the Rotator Bass open.
Amplitube3 uses the Rotary 147 - 2 model.

[jens]

All comments/questions welcomed as usual.

Did you ever play Hammondish sounds in a band yourself?


I?m asking because judging form the video it appears to me as if you do not have much of an idea what a Leslie is actually about...

[jens]

Ok here's one video showcasing the LX122 Standard Edition, with its ...... init preset.



Just for the fun, there's nothing to win, but the first who will post the exact time signature of this track will win a smile and my eternal admiration

LtZ

much better demo - yet you still don't show the deceleration/acceleration

[Lotuzia]

Just for the fun, there's nothing to win, but the first who will post the exact time signature of this track will win a smile and my eternal admiration

LtZ

I'm going with 7/8

Exactly

[Lotuzia]

Ok here's one video showcasing the LX122 Standard Edition, with its ...... init preset.



Just for the fun, there's nothing to win, but the first who will post the exact time signature of this track will win a smile and my eternal admiration

LtZ

much better demo - yet you still don't show the deceleration/acceleration

Thanks.

The decelaration/accelaration times are fully customisable, in both Lx122 and Lx122 Premium units, in all cabinets models, and for all speakers( So two controls per speaker ) They are saved with each preset. As all controls are midi assignable, you can assign the fast/slow toggle to any one, and you can assign 3 different controlers for the horn, the drum, then the Horn + the Drum. There's also a spearate Stop mode. Its really versatile. You can try the demo to see if it matches your needs, or less.

As for your first question, well the aim is not only to try to match just hammondish presets, and not only the 122 or 147 series, I used a lot of Farfisas, and other organs types available in the B4II. The Leslie type cabinets were used for very different purposes in the past, for example Pink Floyd used them on a piano for Meddle, and there are photos of their sets showing them using up to three cabinets simultaneously, and I also made a preset for that, and the audio demo should be somewhere on one of my HD. I did play with a Hammond on some sets, also in rehearsals, sometimes with a Leslie, and most of the time without, but I'm not a good organ player, for example I did not change the harmonic sliders in the demos in real time, that are used to achieve many typical organ effects, because I wanted people to focus on the sound of the Lx122, and for that I thought that the organ sound should stay stable. Maybe it was an error. Nevertheless I found the Lx122 very cool to quickly shoot a chordal Jazzy thing to play with a singer, or a Santana or Sade Adu feel, or an old rock mood like ? and the Mysterians. So this was to try to showcase how versatile the unit can be. Well a lot of people seem to think that a Leslie should be only that, or this. I've seen hundreds of different performers using Organs + Cabinet combos over years : My conclusion is that they manage to sound very differently, from very very smooth to very rock sounding, each in their own style, and that include both their organ settings, and the way they miked or use the cabinets.

I'd encourage everyone to try the demo for themselves and see if they can get their favorite rotary cabinet sound with the LX seriesµ. More than that I'd encourage everybody to try them with very different sources, like pianos, EPs, and even synths, pads, drums etc. You can use them to beef up a synth sound and make it sound very organic for example. Well that's my experience, you can really make very interesting sounds imho with the Lx series with a little experiment.

LtZ

[waltercruz]

I've just done a very quick comparison..
1) A phrase played on the VB3, using its own Leslie
2) The same phrase, same VB3, but with the Leslie switched off, and LX122 inserted on the output of VB3
3) Same as #2, but with Guitar Rig 5 (needed a bit of beefing up, so the chain is.. Cat Distortion>Rotator Cabinet>Rotator
4) Same as #2, but with Amplitube 3 (also a bit disappointing without added drive)..ProDrive>Leslie cabinet.
I didn't take the time to try to match them all up, just did my best to get each one sounding .
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42036960/Test_Leslies.mp3

Thanks for the demo @vic_france .

The Guitar Rig sounds a little... dull.

My organ setup is a kinda weird.. I opted for using mainstage on 64-bit (some facilities to load large sample libraries on EXS24 and Kontakt), so VB3 is not suitable to live use to me. I'm currently using Logic/Mainstage EVB3, though Amplitube Leslie, with PSP microwarmer to give some.. valve feeling. Waiting for a 64-bit version of VB3. I currently play on a Pink Floyd Cover band and a Santana Tribute band, so Hammond and Leslie are a important part of my current rig.

[waltercruz]

To the Hammond/Leslie experts: what are the main differences between 147 and 122?

[jens]

The decelaration/accelaration times are fully customisable, in both Lx122 and Lx122 Premium units, in all cabinets models, and for all speakers( So two controls per speaker ) They are saved with each preset. As all controls are midi assignable, you can assign the fast/slow toggle to any one, and you can assign 3 different controlers for the horn, the drum, then the Horn + the Drum. There's also a spearate Stop mode. Its really versatile. You can try the demo to see if it matches your needs, or less.

That indeed sounds fabulous...

As for your first question, well the aim is not only to try to match just hammondish presets, and not only the 122 or 147 series, I used a lot of Farfisas, and other organs types available in the B4II. The Leslie type cabinets were used for very different purposes in the past, for example Pink Floyd used them on a piano for Meddle, and there are photos of their sets showing them using up to three cabinets simultaneously, and I also made a preset for that, and the audio demo should be somewhere on one of my HD. I did play with a Hammond on some sets, also in rehearsals, sometimes with a Leslie, and most of the time without, but I'm not a good organ player, for example I did not change the harmonic sliders in the demos in real time, that are used to achieve many typical organ effects, because I wanted people to focus on the sound of the Lx122, and for that I thought that the organ sound should stay stable. Maybe it was an error. Nevertheless I found the Lx122 very cool to quickly shoot a chordal Jazzy thing to play with a singer, or a Santana or Sade Adu feel, or an old rock mood like ? and the Mysterians. So this was to try to showcase how versatile the unit can be. Well a lot of people seem to think that a Leslie should be only that, or this. I've seen hundreds of different performers using Organs + Cabinet combos over years : My conclusion is that they manage to sound very differently, from very very smooth to very rock sounding, each in their own style, and that include both their organ settings, and the way they miked or use the cabinets.

Personally I use Leslie-type of effects on a lot of different sounds and instruments, so I know what you mean... but your first demo left me rather cold... it sounded realtively bland, lifeless and sterile to me to be brutally frank...

I'd encourage everyone to try the demo for themselves and see if they can get their favorite rotary cabinet sound with the LX seriesµ. More than that I'd encourage everybody to try them with very different sources, like pianos, EPs, and even synths, pads, drums etc. You can use them to beef up a synth sound and make it sound very organic for example. Well that's my experience, you can really make very interesting sounds imho with the Lx series with a little experiment.

LtZ

Will definitely do...

[Lotuzia]

.. I was just wondering, are we comparing the 147 against the 122, or was the 122 model also used in VB3? I noticed a very pleasant full-range quality in the VB3 Leslie snippet. I liked the LX122, but it does sound more "choked" and "mid-rangey" in this sample.

The VB3 Leslie is the "Rock" 147
The possible "choked" sound of the LX122 is because of the Room settings I used (couldn't resist ).. I could have miked the cab up a bit closer
The cabinet in Guitar Rig is the logical combination of the Rotator Horn open, and the Rotator Bass open.
Amplitube3 uses the Rotary 147 - 2 model.

very nice comparison VicFrance, great playing too

Yes adjusting the mikes position will change a lot the overall character, but also ....... the reberb, just like in a real studio !

The closer, the more "in your face" sound of course.

Then the mike(s) angle(s) will vary the width of the stereo scene, here again like in real world. So you can get very wide scene, or a more focused one. Organ sounding very far away, or intense presence.

Also to "place" the Lx in the true stereo field, you might want to just move one mike and its angle to make him closer to the cabinet pictogram. Direct in the mix.

You can also use the "Cabinet effect" parameter to have a more or less thick sound.

Balance ( in the 2 speakers configurations ) will also have major consequences on the global tone. ( Can be perceived as a Bass/Treble thing, though its actually the balance between the different speakers, so a bit like a vertical positioning of the miking )

The nice thing with the LX series is that you can tweak aa lot of parameters, and all have a "musical" consequence. So its quite versatile ( in my highly biased opinion ) I was able to make it sound like the antique enormous Lowrey organ of my stepfather, for instant "old cinema" organ sounds, if someone can see what I refer too ( mellow, lots of vibrato, like in all those 70s italian movies )

LtZ

[metalifuxx]

Wanting to hear guitar through it. Not like a leslie "Rotosphere" guitar pedal emulation, but the real thing as in what a guitarist like Trey Anastasio (Phish) uses. I am not too familiar off hand with other well known guitarists that actually use real Leslie cabinets (in live use or studio). I want to say maybe Stevie Ray Vaughn or Kenny Wayne Shephard.

[Crackbaby]

I tried to find a good b3 to play through this but couldn't (not free anyway)... so i thought ... what about Oxium? Sure enough, the Easy Organ T works perfectly! (i turned off drive, delay and chorus)
But if you know of a free one, please let me know (I tried the OrganF but that isn't really a B3)

[EvilDragon]

Try Organized Trio (predecessor of VB3).

http://www.kvraudio.com/product/organized_trio_by_gsi

[Crackbaby]

Thanks EvilDragon! Just what i wanted! LX122 sounds great! Now i just have to decide how much use...... granted it can be used on more than a hammond.. I've spent so much lately i have to think really hard on this