Quick ace question

[Dasheesh]

On the filters...but I didn't...haven't seen it on the amp? Am I missing it?

[Dasheesh]

Fall?rise rate is bipolar...but I think that is equated to speed..no?

[Dasheesh]

wait...how is seed bipolar? Now I'm confused.. Some one help me figure out how to reverse the polarity of envelope one and why is fall/rise RATE bipolar?

[Howard]

Read the rather nice manual first (especially the Fall/Rise bit), Dasheesh. If there's anything that's not clear enough in there, I'll try to help again. Deal?

1) envelopes in ACE don't require inverting because whatever you can modulate with them has a *bipolar* modulation depth knob.

2) It makes no sense at all to invert an envelope that's modulating the amp, because Release would rise to maximum and the note would sound "forever and ever". However, you can use that same envelope to modulate something else (e.g. cutoff) and invert it there (bipolar knobs!).

[Dasheesh]

I read and watched the tutorials...funny how I can do it with other synths with the click of a button or by bringing the amount into the negatives. It's not so important that we need to fight over it though. Just a discussion about the possibility in the (I thought) appropriate forum. I'll just drop it and move on.

[Howard]

"...by bringing the amount into the negatives..."

So why don't you do that? Turn any bipolar modulation knob to the left - basta!

It really is incredibly simple: You don't invert envelopes in the envelope panels, you invert their *effect* in the panels of whatever you want to modulate. Makes much more sense, it's much more flexible that way.

[pdxindy]

"...by bringing the amount into the negatives..."

So why don't you do that? Turn any bipolar modulation knob to the left - basta!

It really is incredibly simple: You don't invert envelopes in the envelope panels, you invert their *effect* in the panels of whatever you want to modulate. Makes much more sense, it's much more flexible that way.

+1

[Dasheesh]

except the amp of course. Because there is no envelope amount.and I still want to know how speed goes backwards...whatever. I'm done with it.

[Howard]

Well, that appears to be the end of the "Quick ACE question thread"

[pdxindy]

except the amp of course. Because there is no envelope amount.and I still want to know how speed goes backwards...whatever. I'm done with it.

You cannot invert on the amp. The amp envelope has to start at 0 and end at 0 otherwise all notes would be playing all the time.

[Dasheesh]

I can do it on spire, I can do it on LuSH, I know I used to be able to do it on a couple of hardware synths...waldorf probably, maybe access, also studio electronics. There are synths you can do it on....what happens is that the envelope goes from full open to closed...then when you let go of the keys (notes off) the sustain release kicks in giving it a delayed effect. This all started because I use a lot of envelope amount and I wasn't able to adjust the amount of envelope one. I'm getting sucked into some sort of internet tit for tat here about something that I know is possible and I don't want to go there.

[bmrzycki]

I can do it on spire, I can do it on LuSH, I know I used to be able to do it on a couple of hardware synths...waldorf probably, maybe access, also studio electronics. There are synths you can do it on....what happens is that the envelope goes from full open to closed...then when you let go of the keys (notes off) the sustain release kicks in giving it a delayed effect.

Hi Dasheesh, do you have a short video clip of an example or possibly a page or two in a synth manual you could point us to? It may help to explain exactly what your end goal is. I've read the thread twice and I'm still not exactly sure what you're trying to accomplish, I'm sorry.

I will say that I've found u-he synths have their own unique way of doing things, often simpler and quicker than the original method. But sometimes those methods don't instantly overlap to previous tools you've used. There may be a u-he way of solving this little issue just yet. Don't give up on us!

[Dasheesh]

Pleasant reply. Thank you. Get any synth that has an "envelope amount". Make sure that amount can go bipolar. Start with an initial. Assign envelope one to the oscillator amp. Adjust envelope one with some attack (half way), some decay, put sustain on full for now, and some release (about half way). Pull the amount all the way into the negative. In Lush you can hit a little button that puts the envelope into reverse polarity. Hit the keys and hold until it goes silent. Then release. viola! ... and yes I'm learning about U-he's ways. I get it. They are trying to make things more efficient, but I use a lot of envelope amount, always have. Thus the issue. Do other U-he synths do away with envelope amount as a key parameter? I have to imagine Diva is more classical in design.

[xh3rv]

I'm sure the effect can be done in ACE, I've done it before. WRONG: The VCA/output envelope should be at full sustain and whatever release desired. Before the signal goes to output, though, feed it first through the left side of a multiplier, and use another envelope or ramp generator with no release in the middle multiplier socket. The multiplier output is sort of gated during note-on, but un-gated at release.

Example: https://app.box.com/s/zqyialagdco4s8i4bghg

Cables and modules in composition like this is of course idiomatic to ACE/Bazille - it's a bit of a puzzle at times, but also deeply capable.

[Dasheesh]

That's fine and good but one question...where do I feed the multiplier to? as I can't feed any signal into the amp without it cutting the audio signal.