Muting a track does not mute its MIDI output

[takaii]

To simplefy at meantime. if u use dynamic device within bitwig on a trackwhere you have brass. you select kick pre on sidechain input on dynamic. this behaves exactly like it should, you solo kick no audio from brass.

But if this was a thirdparty plugin you hear the brass when solo the kick.
It is a bug

[Ch00rD]

I tried this in fl studio and it behaves like bitwig

Well, mute buttons do work for both MIDI and audio in e.g. Ableton Live, REAPER, Numerology, and probably a whole bunch of other applications that I haven't used lately.

I dont understand why this is annoying? sure u are used to something else. but if u use bitwig regualare u should develope new habits.

It's annoying because it severely limits my preferred workflow. I could make a simple demonstration to show you, if that would help you understand (especially for live performances, flexible sequencing using remote controllers is essential to me, while abruptly cutting off audio is just about the last thing I want to do).

But please also answer the opposite question: how would it limit or annoy anyone if mute buttons would affect MIDI as well as audio output? That's what I don't understand...

And sure, I'm open to changing my habits with a new host - but the way it looks to me at the moment, Bitwig is simply not (yet) good enough to suit my preferences / demands - it's seems quite convoluted yet *much* less powerful than other hosts I have available - and also much more buggy, less efficient in CPU usage, and less usable for a 'modular' workflow. I'm trying to keep an open mind while I'm still learning how Bitwig works, though.

Still alt+a works great, saves cpu also

It doesn't work 'great' for me at all, since (as far as I can see) we can't remotely control this, nor automate it. And saving CPU is not (or, at least, should not be) an issue for playing a handful of MIDI notes at all, really.

[Ch00rD]

read what blouaap wrote. Explains well whats happening

I did read it - as I already wrote:

So your explanation does not seem to be correct; blouaap's explanation seems to do a better job.

It explains what's happening, sure, but it does not even begin to explain why this is better than having mute/solo buttons affect MIDI as well as audio. So I still consider this to be a severe design flaw. And the information that Bitwig itself provides still seems to be incorrect, too.

[TeePee]

If you direct monitor an external synth, you need that track's MIDI to switch off when you mute the track or solo another track. Otherwise, your direct monitored external synths just carry on playing the MIDI when you want them muted or soloed out.

Just mute device works on hardwere then it dont send midi. ...

When you want to solo, as things stand, you'd have to switch off the hardware instrument device for every synth that's being monitored via a mixer or your audio interface.

As opposed to just quickly clicking a single solo or mute button.

The plain external MIDI tracks in Live and Logic both stop the MIDI when you mute the track, but their External Instrument track's carry on sending the MIDI because they can mute the audio instead. There's a clear reason they both work that way - they understand that direct/hardware monitored synth's need their MIDI muted for the mute or solo buttons to work with the external synths.

[takaii]

If you direct monitor an external synth, you need that track's MIDI to switch off when you mute the track or solo another track. Otherwise, your direct monitored external synths just carry on playing the MIDI when you want them muted or soloed out.

Just mute device works on hardwere then it dont send midi. ...

When you want to solo, as things stand, you'd have to switch off the hardware instrument device for every synth that's being monitored via a mixer or your audio interface.

As opposed to just quickly clicking a single solo or mute button.

The plain external MIDI tracks in Live and Logic both stop the MIDI when you mute the track, but their External Instrument track's carry on sending the MIDI because they can mute the audio instead. There's a clear reason they both work that way - they understand that direct/hardware monitored synth's need their MIDI muted for the mute or solo buttons to work with the external synths.

Would be nice if you showed me like you suggested. Up for learning for sure! Might be valuble information in some point when i want to do more live stuffs

[Ch00rD]

[edit: somehow I double-posted the same stuff, again - and I don't see how to delete a post...]

[blouaap]

read what blouaap wrote. Explains well whats happening

I did read it - as I already wrote:

So your explanation does not seem to be correct; blouaap's explanation seems to do a better job.

It explains what's happening, sure, but it does not even begin to explain why this is better than having mute/solo buttons affect MIDI as well as audio. So I still consider this to be a severe design flaw. And the information that Bitwig itself provides still seems to be incorrect, too.

Here is an example if you'd like:
https://app.box.com/s/vwl8vnn9royq7zyarsip5sb8urs8ds06

To simplefy at meantime. if u use dynamic device within bitwig on a trackwhere you have brass. you select kick pre on sidechain input on dynamic. this behaves exactly like it should, you solo kick no audio from brass.

But if this was a thirdparty plugin you hear the brass when solo the kick.
It is a bug

ROFL.

Try NOT using the ENTIRE Track as the Sidechain there bub, use the Node son (last node if it's a chain).



and read a little bit before thinking BUG:

[takaii]

read what blouaap wrote. Explains well whats happening

I did read it - as I already wrote:

So your explanation does not seem to be correct; blouaap's explanation seems to do a better job.

It explains what's happening, sure, but it does not even begin to explain why this is better than having mute/solo buttons affect MIDI as well as audio. So I still consider this to be a severe design flaw. And the information that Bitwig itself provides still seems to be incorrect, too.

Here is an example if you'd like:
https://app.box.com/s/vwl8vnn9royq7zyarsip5sb8urs8ds06

To simplefy at meantime. if u use dynamic device within bitwig on a trackwhere you have brass. you select kick pre on sidechain input on dynamic. this behaves exactly like it should, you solo kick no audio from brass.

But if this was a thirdparty plugin you hear the brass when solo the kick.
It is a bug

ROFL.

Try NOT using the ENTIRE Track as the Sidechain there bub, use the Node son (last node if it's a chain).



and read a little bit before thinking BUG:

It is by purpose bug then! This is fuckeeed up! Nothing in history have been like that. I didnt read that cause who the f**k could believe only thirdparty inside a daw would work like that. but thanks for fix of not using the track. Its wierd it works with bitwig plugins but not thirdparties.

[owensands]

yes but typical DAW behavior should mute the midi stream of notes and CC mute as well imo. This also poses an issue when using external instruments that are controlled from midi clips as they don't stop the midi from triggering.

If I want to mute the MIDI from a track to an external instrument I just turn off the Hardware Instrument Device controlling it. This will stop MIDI and CC.

Thats cool yeah I usually just stop the clip from playing in the clip launcher but maybe let me rephrase. What would it hurt if they muted it? I guess with my setup I like to jam out and use the mixer in bitwig to mute tracks etc and all my external audio is coming back in on one set of inputs so. Also im pretty sure Live worked like this. I could be wrong though. If there is one thing that is certain I think mute should stop external midi devices from playing as TeePee has stated.

[polygonsheep]

But please also answer the opposite question: how would it limit or annoy anyone if mute buttons would affect MIDI as well as audio output? That's what I don't understand...

Blouaap already explained an example. You might have a e-kick track you want to use as a sidechain on another track but don't want the e-kick to sound out. You can mute the e-kick track and the sidechain will still work. If the midi on the e-kick track was also muted the sidechain would no longer work.

[owensands]

But please also answer the opposite question: how would it limit or annoy anyone if mute buttons would affect MIDI as well as audio output? That's what I don't understand...

Blouaap already explained an example. You might have a e-kick track you want to use as a sidechain on another track but don't want the e-kick to sound out. You can mute the e-kick track and the sidechain will still work. If the midi on the e-kick track was also muted the sidechain would no longer work.

I see your point but you can also just not mute it and select no output for the channel and do pre fader to side chain.

I think it might be ok to leave it like it is for internally routing(maybe not though) but for external routing its a must really and I have yet to hear of an argument against implementing it as such.

[UncleMarty]

Also, if I have a melody playing on a synth on a track with its own midi data and then other channels which play the same melody but use different instruments but at different times (but use a midi receiver taking midi from the first track), muting midi would remove the ability to do that.

[owensands]

Also, if I have a melody playing on a synth on a track with its own midi data and then other channels which play the same melody but use different instruments but at different times (but use a midi receiver taking midi from the first track), muting midi would remove the ability to do that.

So then have a separate track for the midi that goes to each instrument instead of having the one track be the "Parent for the midi". Or maybe we can just have a damn option to mute midi with mutes! lol

[blouaap]

For those who want an example of a 'midi-mute', here I made an automated midi mute using a Step-Mod:

https://app.box.com/s/vwl8vnn9royq7zyarsip5sb8urs8ds06

Works with Audio-Mod or even just using automation.
There is a lot of ways to do this though, you can use note-filter or any MIDI plugin from Bitwig really.
You just have to terminate the MIDI flow towards the Target Device (Switching on/off a node).

This is the beauty of Bitwig, there is millions of ways to do things.

Edit:
Here is a more direct mute:
https://app.box.com/s/g6a9m8pk5noos4hzvp0cvq6utc1ctzbh

[goatgirl]

Thankfully, I have not used Live much so I don't know how it does things. Which probably makes it easier for me to learn Bitwig, as I'm not carrying over any expectations or baggage. I just learn how Bitwig works and use it as intended.

To get back to some of the originals questions.

Just alt+a and disable the channel insteed.

Thanks for your suggestion, but that method suffers from a similar drawback as muting clips or notes: there is no way to bind this to a controller, as far as I can see. (I would be glad to be proven wrong, of course!)

If you want to use a controller to mute a midi signal you can use the note filter device and set the velocity range from 0 to 0. This has the effect of stopping all MIDI messages. Then hook up the controller to the device on/off. When the device is on, the MIDI is muted. When it is off the MIDI will pass through.