All DAWs should have automation like this. Steinberg & PreSonus - take note please!

[Scottex]

You can never draw the envelope in the pic above in Cubase or S1.

We need an easy way to automate any parameter:

Bezier curves - I mean, just look at it.

"Automation clips" or containers like in FL Studio, or like in Logic (called "region-based automation"). Basically chunks of automation that can be moved around, copied and pasted just the same as instrument parts.

Automation clips can be ghost-copied for repeating/rhythmic automation, edit one clip and changes propagate to all ghost copies at once. Please don't even mention copy-paste here, it's a waste of time.

An automation clip can control any parameter, so any given automation clip can be freely dragged or copied across to other parameters.

Studio one 3 has bezier curve. Automation follow events is your friend. You can select a range duplicate it or move it. Studio one has also transformation tool, fl not. I use a lot automations and I prefer s1 automation over fl. If you don't like s1 automation system you can just switch to fl or whatever you like most...

It has curves but they are not beziers and still quite fiddly to work with. Also, annoyingly it still records automation with dozens of tiny straight lines rather than making smooth curves. Working with proper bezier curves in DAWS that support them (I don't have FL but Podium and Reaper both have excellent bezier curve implementation) is very different, you can control every detail of the curve with just a few control points instead of having to edit dozens each time, adjust the slope or shape quickly with handles, and simplify envelopes to just a few key points.

I'll tell you my friend... If you are looking for a daw with top features Studio One is not for you, if you are looking for a daw with a fast and intuitive workflow Studio One could be one of the best choice.

There are so many options out of there. If you are not happy with one daw you can use another one... simply as that. Also remember that every daw could be better. Just look at FL, now V12 still no proper freeze function. People still use it because they like it. So with S1. If you like it you can use it, if you don't like it there always will be a missing feature or a thing that could be done better. Really.

I actually did the request for the Bezier Curve and then PreSonus decided to implement it because was the most view thread... if you really need something go and post your thread in the Future Request feature. If you are really like they will listen to you, but it's very hard...

[incubus]

What's the point of killer automation when you can't even simply record/mix? Same with the midi. It's great, but who cares if you can't compose in a logical fashion?

I understand that many people use FL and have success with it, but compared to studio one or Cubase it's not even in the same country. Let alone the same zip code.

[SJ_Digriz]

hmm .. thought i replied to this, but I don't see it.

I agree that Cubase and others could improve the speed of automation entry. However, I would point out the bezier is really not necessary or even the best method. It is a cheater view of the envelope. Especially when dealing with MIDI. 1st the processing overhead of doing real time bezier analysis to determine node occurrence is significant. 2nd, the slope/curve gives you no indicator for where an automation node will occur. In other words, it doesn't match the actual automation. Just some food for thought.

[Image-Line]

What's the point of killer automation when you can't even simply record/mix? Same with the midi. It's great, but who cares if you can't compose in a logical fashion?

I understand that many people use FL and have success with it, but compared to studio one or Cubase it's not even in the same country. Let alone the same zip code.

If there is one thing FL Studio has never been accused of, that is sucking at recording and editing MIDI.

Regards Scott

[elxsound]

FL is really great. Love the Fruity for pattern arranging. I own Fruity Edition and just recently got the latest version. Nice.

But sure, in a perfect world every daw would have everything good from every other. Unfortunately for us, it doesn't ever work that way. Cubase is at version 19 or whatever (from Cubase Atari) and you still can't even directly move mixer channels around. It is what it is. Annoyances can be very personal things. What annoys Joe, Jack couldn't care less about.

Which is why one should pick a DAW for what it is, rather than what it is not.

I know, would nice to have it all too, but can you imagine if Cubase had every nice feature from every other DAW in addition to the massive amounts of features it already has?

Frankendaw. Not sure if I would want to use it to tell you the truth

Its not about becoming a Frankendaw...

I don't understand the thinking here. We're talking about something that is already implemented, becoming better.

And this idea that because a DAW might be on version 19, no one should bother asking for something new. If that were true then why would they bother offering upgrades and why would anyone pay for them (if they didn't offer something new)?

And why post 10 times to say you don't use it so don't ask for it? If it received an update it wouldn't affect you so why the campaign to deter someone for asking for it?

Anyway, I agree... always buy for what it it is and not what you want it to be, but as far upgrades and feature requests go... Nothing will get better unless people request what they want. Many times people don't realize that something can and could be different until they see a better way of doing things.

It's almost impossible to post here without someone twisting your words into something else.

I never said or even implied, "don't ask for it". I was only chuckling at the idea that everything we find useful should be in "every daw", as if we'll actually even use or even want to use "every daw", that's all.

Try to focus on that. The idea of me telling every other daw user on the planet what the thing they actually bought that I never even owned or used, "needs"... because I need it in product x, somehow that means everybody everywhere needs it in every other product also because.... ?

Do you know what I "need" in Studio One? Nope. You'd only know that if I told you, you can't learn that by assuming what you need is what I need.

All I was saying is that daws, commercial products, should have whatever their customers want, within reason, not everything every guy who compares every single daw on the planet thinks, but what the actual users think, because that benefits the people selling them.

I, for example, personally have no idea what most Samp users want.

Sorry for the edits. IPad thumbs.

But the problem is that this isn't a request to bring every feature of every DAW into another DAW. Its about changing the way automation is done. Talk about twisting words... how does one specific feature get twisted into every feature in every other DAW.

And yes we get it... you don't draw in automation. Congrats.

[Phorous]

What's the point of killer automation when you can't even simply record/mix? Same with the midi. It's great, but who cares if you can't compose in a logical fashion?

I understand that many people use FL and have success with it, but compared to studio one or Cubase it's not even in the same country. Let alone the same zip code.

If there is one thing FL Studio has never been accused of, that is sucking at recording and editing MIDI.

Regards Scott

Well played

Don't think even Edward has attempted to accuse IL of that .

[incubus]

What's the point of killer automation when you can't even simply record/mix? Same with the midi. It's great, but who cares if you can't compose in a logical fashion?

I understand that many people use FL and have success with it, but compared to studio one or Cubase it's not even in the same country. Let alone the same zip code.

If there is one thing FL Studio has never been accused of, that is sucking at recording and editing MIDI.

Regards Scott

Well, now you have

At least someone in the other thread (actually, two people) tried to help. This is just 12+ years same old and why I delete it after a two week trial every year even though I've owned it for so long. In before the 12yo that accuses me of it being a crack

[keel]

What I love in FL automation, is that "tension" line between the automation points. That makes life 1000 times easier. Recently, S1 added that feature, but it is not working as good in FL. It is not smooth as it in FL amd especially that last "jump" is ridicoulus. I like Cubase a lot, but antic automation system is only reason why I dont, and wont, ever move on it. If they add that "tension" line between those dots and make it work like on FL, i say goodbye for FL and buy Cubase

[toothnclaw]

There's a lot of room for improvement in every DAW. This much should be clear.

There are two things hindering the speed of progress: 1. companies diverting resources for other projects instead of concentrating on their DAW product; 2. the business side of things: doing it for the money, hence delaying implementation of features, doing partial implementation to allow for later improvement, etc. all to make users cough up more cash. Worst offender here is Propellerhead.

3rd is, of course, competition. Cooperation is the faster route. Imagine the developers of Logic, Steinberg, Magix, Ableton and Fruity working together on a single DAW... not for the money, but to 'make it' ASAP: how long would it take for feature X to be implemented?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[tooneba]

I want select multiple break point and move feature in FL too.

[LawrenceF]

I don't really have any complaints with any modern daw's automation. They all do the job.

They do, true. Everything (literally, feature wise) comes down to expectation. Users only have expectations of what they've used before and/or what they see somewhere else. I come from mixing on digital consoles, and daw automation, to my personal expectation and desires, generally falls well short of that, as a purely practical matter.

PT and Nuendo and similar are about as close as you get to that in software. Most modern music creation daws have like 3 automation modes tops, as if the other automation modes don't even exist or don't have any practical use. Users don't miss those things because they've never had them. Some of them don't even have Latch mode, just read and write.

I like S1's automation but it's not on that level yet. Reaper's automation is improving, you can automate clip FX now in v5, but it too has some problematic design bits.

Engineering, as relates to software, is a lot harder than some of the discussions imply. It's often the case that developers can't simply do something just because users really want it, that there are engineering hurdles to overcome, so we kinda have to live in reality and just be hopeful about some of that stuff. If we were the designers it wouldn't be any different.

Anywho, as to editing, outside of Cubase or probably a Reaper script, can you even just click a button and bypass all mute or plugin automation or whatever in most of these products? It kinda becomes a relative click fest. And almost none of them have snapshot automation.

[incubus]

W/O reading any of the posts, I just wanted to say sorry. I realize it's going to fall on deaf ears, but I'm just frustrated. I'm no expert on any daw, but unless they are crashing or there are ridiculous bugs I can use anything. Except FL. I'm going to blame me.

I also wanted to say that despite completely not gelling with FL at all, one problem I used to have was resource uses. I've tried everything.

Then came came win 10. I don't know why, but for whatever reason it runs smooth as silk (the demo songs) Very reasonable resources use, and though I can't figure it out......it's a sexy bitch! And, the nektar impact works great with it.

So again, I'll chalk up all the problems as being me. I think I'm starting to understand why companies get jaded for some reason.

Sorry to hijack, yes, the automation is beautiful (and I still think they make the best demo songs in the biz )

[tooneba]

you got a temper? shut down computer and go outside. Youll feel better.

[Tonberry]

It wouldn't hurt if Bezier curves would be in every DAW. It's not some kind of gimmick but a universal feature after all. It's very surprising that some hosts considered to be the best at MIDI (Cubase, Samplitute, Digital Performer) don't have Bezier curves. It saves a lot of time when specific shape needs to be drawn and instead of clickfest to achieve close to what I wanted, I can just click twice, aim for the middle and just drag. Huge timesaver.

FL Studio may have some great automation advantages in playlist window, but it probably has the single worst automation in piano roll out of all the main daws. For music that doesn't contain a lot of notes but is heavy on the automation (like drum'n'bass), it doesn't matter much (Seamless in his Youtube videos shows the power of Fl Studio in that regard well) but when composing MIDI and editing CC is someone's bread and butter, FL Studio becomes a no-go zone because its automation stripe in piano roll has just 6 or 7 basic controls. Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't spend much time in FL Studio.

I've seen pictures of custom plugin parameter automation in piano roll so there must be a way to somehow "route" it but whatever the procedure of that is, assuming there are 5 CCs needed for every VI and there are 100 VIs in a template, it's 300 things to route. A suicide mission, especially considering that it's just there from the start in every other DAW.

There are few known game music composers who use FL Studio though so there must be a way to bring it to a managable level somehow or maybe they just split the automation process entirely from composing and do it later from the playlist - I'm sure many people like to work like that.

Also, if custom plugin parameters can be adjusted from automation stripe in the piano roll, this would be fantastic and it's another feature I long for - merging arranger automation with piano roll automation, full access to everything from both places and instantly refreshed synchronized display so that thing modified in piano roll for example is instantly seen in arranger view in automation panel.

So I guess in the automation department, FL Studio has everything from "oh yes!" to "jesus christ"!