Latest Builds: Diva 1.4.2 VST3 fix (beta)

[Urs]

Thanks Alex for clearing this up

[bnz]

My recommendation is to use a plug-in format with complete MIDI implementation to do MIDI Learn, then it also works in VST3, less assigning multiple CCs to one target parameter.

I don't get it. If Steinberg doesn't agree and you don't use the workaround, the new VST3 implementation will stay half done and we should continue using the VST2 plugin?

[abique]

I don't get it. If Steinberg doesn't agree and you don't use the workaround, the new VST3 implementation will stay half done and we should continue using the VST2 plugin?

MIDI learn will not work, but the VST3 philosophy is that you don't use MIDI Learn from the plugin, you do it from the host. If you don't like that philosophy just use an other interface (vst2, au, ...).

[bnz]

Ah ok. Thanks for claryfying.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Is there an ETA on the larger browser updates that I know are being worked on? I'm good with the current version of Diva and don't see much benefit to updating to a beta right now, but I'd be very interested in checkout out the browser updates as soon as they become available.

[zvenx]

I don't get it. If Steinberg doesn't agree and you don't use the workaround, the new VST3 implementation will stay half done and we should continue using the VST2 plugin?

MIDI learn will not work, but the VST3 philosophy is that you don't use MIDI Learn from the plugin, you do it from the host. If you don't like that philosophy just use an other interface (vst2, au, ...).

But I don 't agree that that is the philosophy, else SB's own VST3 instruments wouldn't' midi learn.
What I am interpreting from what urs is saying, is the midi learn implementation is highly 'inefficient' and doesn't make sense in his opinion to use it as is.
rsp

[Urs]

I don't get it. If Steinberg doesn't agree and you don't use the workaround, the new VST3 implementation will stay half done and we should continue using the VST2 plugin?

MIDI learn will not work, but the VST3 philosophy is that you don't use MIDI Learn from the plugin, you do it from the host. If you don't like that philosophy just use an other interface (vst2, au, ...).

But I don 't agree that that is the philosophy, else SB's own VST3 instruments wouldn't' midi learn.
What I am interpreting from what urs is saying, is the midi learn implementation is highly 'inefficient' and doesn't make sense in his opinion to use it as is.
rsp

No... the point is, this time we want to do it all perfectly to the specs. So we did that. No wrapping, no simplified ways, no workarounds.

However, the VST3 specs do not meet the requirements for our built-in MIDI Learn feature. That is, not just a right-click menu and not a limit of just 1 CC per parameter. So we / abique kindly sent feature requests to Steinberg. My last info (before I posted here) was that this was gonna come, but alas, they're not doing it. Bummer.

It is extremely frustrating. No other plug-in standard has such restrictions. The VSTReadMe will stay in our downloads for a while.

But as I said. It's only the MIDI Learn stuff. If you can live with how MIDI assignments in VST3 work, you can just MIDI Learn our stuff in VST2 once and use VST3 from then on. I suppose that most people will be just fine with VST3 as it is.

[ulph]

No... the point is, this time we want to do it all perfectly to the specs. So we did that. No wrapping, no simplified ways, no workarounds.

I respect this philosophy. Every one is better off in the long run this way.

[abique]

There is another limitation: you can't map the same CC to multiple parameters.

[arne]

My last info (before I posted here) was that this was gonna come, but alas, they're not doing it. Bummer.

Bummer, your informant must be closer to the VST3 team than me. As far as I know, there's no decision done yet. Maybe he got alternate facts...

[abique]

OK. Let's try to be constructive instead.

Arne, do you think that one day we could map one CC to multiple parameters? That would be a first improvement for u-he plugins.

Thank you,
Alex.

[omiroad]

So am I right in concluding that Steinberg has the power to hold the entire industry back?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

So am I right in concluding that Steinberg has the power to hold the entire industry back?

Only if you use VST3 plugins.

I'm 100% VST2 even though I have a VST3 compatible host (S1), and I've never felt as though as I was missing out.

[Urs]

So am I right in concluding that Steinberg has the power to hold the entire industry back?

That would be going too far. Yet, no plug-in standard was IMHO ever designed with everything in mind that plug-in developers would come up with. With VST3 we're restricted in MIDI, with AU we were for a long time restricted in timing, not anymore. But still in AU there is no MIDI out. In RE we're restricted in ways I can't even begin to tell you about. In AAX we're forced to think a few things differently, specifically about the way we build our stuff.

It's a reality we live in. We try to be constructive with host developers, but with some we don't even know who to talk to. That said, Alexandre sent substantial work - proof of concept - to Steinberg which was partially financed by us. In case of the Linux port they certainly modified and completed it, but that is what developers at a host manufacturers get to do.

My job is, in threads like this, to explain to people why certain features work in one plug-in format, but not in another. If the originators of a plug-in format are unhappy with that, they're welcome to fix the situation.

[aMUSEd]

Apart from compatibility with certain hosts (more an issue on Mac perhaps) and possibly sidechaining with fx (which I don't usually bother with) I'm still uncertain why I should use a VST3 plugin instrument as opposed to VST2 or AU?