Is there any reverb sound you CAN'T do with the full set of Valhalla reverbs?

[acousticglue]

afterneath needs be a plugin

[Fleer]

So, for every kind of reverb that you can do, there are flavors of that reverb that I don't think that Valhalla can achieve. Someone mentioned Lexicon, I have to agree, even though I don't have them I often like them in shootouts. I also don't think that any Valhalla reverb can come close to Ircam Verb3 in terms of sounding like it isn't there.

Practically, I don't think that it does all hardware emulations and just having different flavors matters. It doesn't emulate the Eventide 2016 which is one of my favorites, the aforementioned 2445, also a favorite, and other variants of the plate. Sean used a particular plate from a Seattle studio to tweak his model. It sounds good, but, it doesn't sound, to my ears, like the Abbey Road plates or Soundtoys Little Plate.

There's no IR reverb at all in his collection and there are great and interesting spaces that you can obtain IRs for so I don't think that it can replace my favorite IR verbs Waves IR1 or Liquidsonics Reverberate 2. Let's not get started on top of the line IR verbs like Altiverb or special purpose verbs like VSL MIR.

More practical considerations, it can't do anything like S.T.E.E.D. in the new Waves Chamber reverbs unless you have some external routing that allows for feedback. Also along this line someone else mentioned the limitations of shimmer. It can't do really bad weird metallic reverb like dreamscape from Minimal Systems Group. It can't move microphones in the space and apply gates to them like Eventide T-Verb. Maybe you can simulate that and make that sound using external gates and playing with other parameters, but it's not clear to me how to get exactly the same effect. On a similar line, you don't have the ribbon with the smooth modulation of Eventide Blackhole or Mangleverb. I don't think that it can get that almost saccharin tail of Exponential Audio's R2.

Reverb is complex, detailed, and varied. If you just want a room/hall/plate and you like the sound of Valhalla, you're good. I don't think that just having those "types" though means that you can replace any similar type with Valhalla, the devil is in the details.

Great post, ghettosynth, I enjoyed reading that.

[Mats Eriksson]

Valhalla can't do QRS. Quantec Room Simulator. But granted, few others can't too either if any. But it is niche, but natural rooms.

[vurt]

There are all kinds of things that can be done with reverb, that aren't in any Valhalla plugins (yet, and in some cases, probably ever).

- Spring of course
- IR: probably not much point in a DSP guru like Sean writing another IR plugin when there are fine ones out there already.
- Open feedback loops: add your own saturation, EQ, bitcrushing, chorus/phaser, wavefolders, whatever.
- Tempo syncable predelay
- Reversable reverb (sorta doable in UberMod)
- Infinite/freeze
- More extensive modulation options besides "good" ones
- Any sort of ducking
- Sympathetic string/resonator based reverb (e.g. Pianoverb)

Check out some of the Eurorack and guitar pedal stuff out there: Make Noise Erbe-Verb, AC Noises AMA, Industrialectric RM-1N, Earthquaker Afterneath, Caroline Meteore...

want to add that to the transmisser, can find a place for both

one at the front of the chain, one at the end

[Etienne1973]

Valhalla can't do QRS. Quantec Room Simulator. But granted, few others can't too either if any. But it is niche, but natural rooms.

Relab Sonsig Rev-A has a QRS mode. I wish there would be more parameters to sculpt though. Right now on sale for $74. "Just" $24 more than your usual Valhallas.

[leeleema]

Lovely thread, chaps

[Mats Eriksson]

Valhalla can't do QRS. Quantec Room Simulator. But granted, few others can't too either if any. But it is niche, but natural rooms.

Relab Sonsig Rev-A has a QRS mode. I wish there would be more parameters to sculpt though. Right now on sale for $74. "Just" $24 more than your usual Valhallas.

Thanks for the tip.
While I've seen this one, not heard it yet, most QRS impersonations starting to show up now, is of the old 80s unit, with a mere 8 bit, or 12 bit resolution. No rocket science. Anyways, those are far and in between. I guess I've been quite spoiled since I've actually heard the IRL hardware one 2496, that came out in the 00s, which was a spiffed up 16 bit res, version. It's the same with those people hearing IRL Bricastis, they wonder why they can't make proper IR's of them, same with QRS. They end up sounding flat as a pancake. They are spolied. One becomes spoiled. And one can still hear modulation artificats and "krrr" tails, and trails of the longer decays, on the algorithmic reverbs, methinks. Will download the demo of the Relab today and see how it carries. I don't want to hear what the algorithm is doing. There is a decent QRS in the "Hall Of Fame" reverb plugin demo at 4.2 seconds, which is a set in stone convolution reverb, but I am reluctant these days to pour money into yet another 10 GB library of convolution, and IR samples. I am good with PSP 2445 as an EMT plate, which I found quite decent for my plate uses, and are looking for more natural reverbs. The modulations - even if "fusion ir's" - are starting to get on my nerves a bit. Ray tracing too. QRS solves the reverb thing with another way of thinking. Moreso like a long horn with air traveling through it, in lack of better likeness.

Ok, off tangent, digressing a bit, back on topic. Well, there are certainly a couple of things that the whole Valhalla suite doesn't cover, but one should be aware, that it doesn't matter to the majority of people out there. Bread and butter, run of the mill reverbs for regular vocal, horns, drums, guitars, synths are comme-il-faux what makes the volume sales, and so it should remain, methinks. If one goes into progressive things, psychedelic ambient electronica stuff, there are others around, but I count these still as niche music. Me myself doesn't care for shimmer anymore. I overused it when Strymon came out with it on hardware pedals 10 years ago, or so, but now it wears on me. I used to though, and confess it today as a guilty pleasure...

[ScrLk]

Adaptiverb can be made to be in tune in a way that Shimmer can't. http://www.zynaptiq.com/adaptiverb/

[mabian]

Can Valhalla do spring reverb?

[Mats Eriksson]

Valhalla can't do QRS. Quantec Room Simulator. But granted, few others can't too either if any. But it is niche, but natural rooms.

Relab Sonsig Rev-A has a QRS mode. I wish there would be more parameters to sculpt though. Right now on sale for $74. "Just" $24 more than your usual Valhallas.

I tested thoroughly the Sonsig rev-A today all afternoon. In headphones and high end studio monitors. One can only look at the lever vu-meters inside the plugin, the output always "tremolos" between L&R channels no matter what setting. QRS, 224, and Rev-A. They do have less "trail krrrrs" even when diffusion full on, than others, but by no means, any QRS here, not even in the parking lot, more likely the towaway zone. It did do some great "blade runner" type blooming 224 like reverbs, thick and fat, and had no apparent audible modulation on some other types of verb. 224 and Blade Runner runs together and should have that "un-natural" modulations and science fiction "hall-scapes" so I am all game with that. But...others does that one too.

But still, too much fluttering between L&R channels that can be heard. But granted, Valhalla won't do these either .... [sorry, couldn't resist].

[SteveWZ]

I'm just curious if there are distinct reverb types/sounds/colors that you can't get with Valhalla reverbs. Spring reverb comes to mind, but are there other things that you simply cannot attain with his existing stable of delay plugins?

Yes, an example would be bi-directional spaces that you can do with impulse responses.
Impulse Responses can do several things that cant be done with algorithmic reverbs.
This may not matter for general music production for for Film/Cinematic and Ambient it can be essential.

[SteveWZ]

Can Valhalla do spring reverb?

It can get close but not as close as plugins designed specifically to do this.

[Mats Eriksson]

It seems that the Valhalla suite, is some kind of "swiss army knife" and "bread and butter" reverbs that works decent for most kinds of music out there. The QRS, Shimmer, Adaptiq and "niche" kind of electronica ambient reverbs are just that. Special needs. We all know that a swiss army knife can come in handy in most scenarios, but sometimes you need a Bowie knife, or something more special to cut it (sorry, couldn't resist). Those niche special plugins, like PSP 2445 does the EMT plate thing better than the SAK (Swiss Army KNifes) reverbs out there. And not EMT 250, or any plate, but EMT 244 and 245 respectively. And, yes, does it better. There are numerous others of course. And as others have said already, special dedicated spring reverbs plugins are better than "just a spring preset" on any run-of-the mill reverb plugin.

My gripe is still that "krrr" "ray-tracing" and modulation artefacts. Regarding spring and plates, IRL reverb tanks or plates, I have yet to hear any with "krrr" or modulation in them. I've developed a certain taste, that for electric guitars, I am less picky about reverbs, because electric guitar pickups goes to like 5-6 Khz, or 7 Khz at the most, and any major plugin with a spring preset will do for me. But as fast as one goes over to synths, vocals, percussion, horns, whatever, I start to dwell in the rabbit hole, and get pernickety big time...or is it persnickety ?! is that a real word BTW !?

[Hermetech Mastering]

I've talked with Sean about it, he doesn't really have anything like the Eventide 2016, which is why I also bought that plugin.