KVR Audio

Smapti · Post by **Smapti** » Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:21 pm

You can do tons of automation stuff in Ableton with Max for Live -- essentially anything you can think of. Any parameter (internal, mixer, or VST) can be targeted by LFOs, envelopes, step sequencers, etc. You can trigger envelopes with MIDI or audio; use envelope followers to control parameters with audio; multiply mod sources together; etc. You can get pretty esoteric: for example, a VST parameter on one channel can be linked to a VST parameter on another channel so that they move in parallel. Or you can convert automation to MIDI so that a synth plays along with the LFO controlling a parameter on any channel. Sky's the limit, really.

Kinh · Post by **Kinh** » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:17 am

Smapti wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:21 pm You can do tons of automation stuff in Ableton with Max for Live -- essentially anything you can think of. Any parameter (internal, mixer, or VST) can be targeted by LFOs, envelopes, step sequencers, etc. You can trigger envelopes with MIDI or audio; use envelope followers to control parameters with audio; multiply mod sources together; etc. You can get pretty esoteric: for example, a VST parameter on one channel can be linked to a VST parameter on another channel so that they move in parallel. Or you can convert automation to MIDI so that a synth plays along with the LFO controlling a parameter on any channel. Sky's the limit, really.

Hmmm, dat's interesting

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:39 pm

Smapti wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:21 pm You can do tons of automation stuff in Ableton with Max for Live -- essentially anything you can think of. Any parameter (internal, mixer, or VST) can be targeted by LFOs, envelopes, step sequencers, etc. You can trigger envelopes with MIDI or audio; use envelope followers to control parameters with audio; multiply mod sources together; etc. You can get pretty esoteric: for example, a VST parameter on one channel can be linked to a VST parameter on another channel so that they move in parallel. Or you can convert automation to MIDI so that a synth plays along with the LFO controlling a parameter on any channel. Sky's the limit, really.

If only M4L was stable...

Biscotto · Post by **Biscotto** » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:23 pm

pdxindy wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:39 pm
Smapti wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:21 pm You can do tons of automation stuff in Ableton with Max for Live -- essentially anything you can think of. Any parameter (internal, mixer, or VST) can be targeted by LFOs, envelopes, step sequencers, etc. You can trigger envelopes with MIDI or audio; use envelope followers to control parameters with audio; multiply mod sources together; etc. You can get pretty esoteric: for example, a VST parameter on one channel can be linked to a VST parameter on another channel so that they move in parallel. Or you can convert automation to MIDI so that a synth plays along with the LFO controlling a parameter on any channel. Sky's the limit, really.
If only M4L was stable...

Extremely stable on my W10 system including Isotonik Modulat.

Smapti · Post by **Smapti** » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:50 pm

Same here - no stability issues with M4L. And Isotonik Modulat is a gamechanger: it's mind-blowing how much crazy modulation stuff you can do in it.

jclosed · Post by **jclosed** » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:49 pm

Well - Keep in mind that M4L is not included in the standard (most used) Ableton Live version. It's only included in the suite version. People that own the standard version have to fork out a considerable amount of money to buy M4L separately.
Bitwig has all that stuff in their standard version, making it a bit less expensive...

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:53 pm

jclosed wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:49 pm Well - Keep in mind that M4L is not included in the standard (most used) Ableton Live version. It's only included in the suite version. People that own the standard version have to fork out a considerable amount of money to buy M4L separately.
Bitwig has all that stuff in their standard version, making it a bit less expensive...

have you tried reaper?

Forgotten · Post by **Forgotten** » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:59 pm

jclosed wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:49 pm Well - Keep in mind that M4L is not included in the standard (most used) Ableton Live version. It's only included in the suite version. People that own the standard version have to fork out a considerable amount of money to buy M4L separately.
Bitwig has all that stuff in their standard version, making it a bit less expensive...

Bitwig doesn’t have M4L...

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:04 pm

Are we talking about modulation or automation?
In my opinion Bigwig wins hands down for modulation (even without The Grid) and has some interesting (if non-standard tools) for automation.

If it is just drawing in 'automation' you are interested in I have found recording the movement of my faders to be vastly preferable to most drawing tools, some of which would put photoshop to shame, but in reality have little musical use for most people.

Biscotto · Post by **Biscotto** » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:09 pm

SLiC wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:04 pm Are we talking about modulation or automation?
In my opinion Bigwig wins hands down for modulation and has some interesting (if non-standard tools) for automation.

If it is just drawing in 'automation' you are interested in I have found recording the movement of my faders to be vastly preferable to most drawing tools, some of which would put photoshop to shame, but in reality have little musical use for most people.

the modulations in Bitwig are restricted to the channel level and in the order of hierarchy.

Distorted Horizon · Post by **Distorted Horizon** » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:00 pm

Reason anyone? Modular modulation and one click automation items?

Psuper · Post by **Psuper** » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:25 pm

Psuper wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:42 pm Reason certainly isn't the best DAW in many areas, but in automation nothing rivals it when it comes to uniformity and ease of doing so.

This guy knows what he's talking about.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:49 pm

Psuper wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:25 pm
Psuper wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:42 pm Reason certainly isn't the best DAW in many areas, but in automation nothing rivals it when it comes to uniformity and ease of doing so.
This guy knows what he's talking about.

Yeah, I love its automation clips and all it brings with it (static value, stretching, reversing, etc.) but two things made me exclude it from my list: 1) automation values often have nothing to do with actual parameter, i.e. track fader goes from 0 to 1000; 2) automating any insert FX adds a new sequencer track for the device and automated parameter, which quickly makes things super messy as tracks can't be grouped and automation lanes can only be minimised, not hidden

But otherwise it's fantastic!

Ambiphile · Post by **Ambiphile** » Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:57 pm

While i generally love and use FL Studio everyday, automation is definately not its strongest point i'd say...
I find it super annoying that there is apparently no way to insert a few bars mid-song without messing up all the automation clips you have already created. Using the slice tool to cut the clips etc. doesn't help either.

wackob · Post by **wackob** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:06 pm

FL Studio 20 has pretty neat automation features.

Which DAW Is Best For Automation?