Recording guitar & bass using T7 at

[Peter Widdicombe]

Yes, if you have pedals/pedalboard or amp effects in an AMP that you then feed it's Line-out into T7 through some means, then any sound effect/modification done "outboard" DOES get recorded into the audio section. VST plugins take affect in the signal path AFTER the "recorder" input; and these can actually be changed after the fact. The pre-mix modifications before T7's audio input can't be changed and are part of the recorded waveform.

[Watchful]

His EQ and compressor are built into his amp, which would be ahead of his T7 input.

I'm recommending he put a plugin compressor into T7 as well.

[I will follow]

Thanks for clarifying this.

[Watchful]

No problem at all!

I'm not sure of your exact signal chain, but it's probably something like:

Guitar/bass => Pedals/effects => Amp => Audio Interface => Computer => Waveform => Speakers/headphones

Anything you do at any step affects everything that follows, but obviously nothing before!

Any noise or distortion coming out of any "=>" symbol means that everything that follows is affected by it.

Not to say you're sunk if distortion happens before it gets to Waveform, as there are tools to help cool a messy or distorted sound coming into Waveform after it's been recorded. But I think we're all in agreement that the cleaner the signal coming in, the better the signal coming out.

You might experiment with some software-based amps, too, which can help take out two steps from that chain (pedals/effects and amp). Few guitarists like them, versus traditional effects and amps, but they really can do an amazing job.

[I will follow]

Thanks. I use a focusrite audio interface, amplitube 4 and traction 7. I've not looked into Waveform yet.

I use stomp and rack plugins for effects.

[Watchful]

Yeah, sorry--I keep forgetting and typing "Waveform" (which you'll like, and it's free and easy to upgrade from T7).

Are you using a physical amp at all? If so, that changes my understanding of your setup.

[I will follow]

No physical Amps at the moment - all virtual after years of resisting it! Would you say Waveform is better than T7?

[Watchful]

I've used T6,T7, WF9, WF10, and WF11, which isn't terribly impressive given some of the folks here go back to T1!

I have found each version better than the previous. While WF11's newest features don't offer me much, its stability is significant even though I didn't have too many issues with it before. Going from T7 to WF9 wasn't difficult but the changes were noticeable in terms of power.

If you're curious, you can install the free version of WF11 alongside T7 safely...just DON'T open any T7 projects in 11! Work on some test or temporary material, because you can't down-save and WF11 autosaves in its own format. I did this with T7 and WF9, until I found myself going back to T7 less and less.

It'll take you about 30 seconds to make the adjustment and figure out 11. It should easily match your T7 settings without any problem, too.

[I will follow]

Thank you. I’ll give this a go.

[I will follow]

There's a bunch on the market, some expensive and some cheap, and some are even totally free--and some of those can be just as good as the priciest ones!

Any compressor needs to have five elements: threshold, ratio, attack, release, and an output gain makeup. And great news: Waveform's built-in compressor has all of these (at least the one in W11 does; I don't think they've updated it, so T7's is likely identical).

There's really only one thing missing from it, and that's a level meter. But guess what else you get for free in Waveform?

1. Drag the "Compressor" plugin to your bass track.
2. Command/option-drag the output meter in that track to copy it on the other side of the compressor. Your track's output should look like "Meter" > "Compressor" > "Meter." This will show you a "before and after" of your efforts. I'll explain more about that in a bit.

Threshold is where you set the limit... anything "above" this threshold gets compressed. As you play back your recorded bass--or play live--watch the levels in those meters. If they turn read, turn the threshold DOWN until the second of the two meters stops going red. There's no recommended setting here--it's going to very much depend on your specific track at the moment. Just keep adjusting it in small moves. Dial it down so that you're more-or-less around -18dB on average, and peaking at or below -6dB on the SECOND of the two meters.

Ratio is how much the compressed portion of your signal is compressed. With bass, this isn't such a big deal, so you can leave it at 2:1, or maybe mess with it and see if you like 3:1. I wouldn't ever go more than 4:1 (not sure I ever have).

Attack is how fast the compressor will kick in when you hit the threshold. Keep this between 10-50ms for a bass. You typically want this pretty short.

Release is how quickly the compressor stops doing its job. Experiment between 100-1000ms for a bass. You might not even notice a lot of difference, but if you hear your bass notes starting to squeeze a bit, dial down the release: what you're hearing is the compressor is holding a note too long, and it's still compressing the note that follows (even if the next note is below your threshold).

Output makeup gain is important. Because you're compressing your notes, it's possible you can hear a drop in overall output (the bass track is quieter). Basically, turn this UP until your track is as loud as it can go before it starts hitting red (that's the second of the two meters). With moderate compression, you might not need this at all, but if you're going for power, you might notice the compressor is cutting your output too much, and you want it to come back a little bit.

Can you use the EQ on your amps? Absolutely! What about the built-in compressors? Absolutely! The problem is that you don't have good visual feedback to see if they're overdoing it. You can daisy-chain compressors: that way you're only trimming a little bit off each.

So here's my recommendation: use the amps' built-in compressor to get the sound you love first... then, when you're recording, use the T7 compressor to perfect that sound. By using both, neither will need to work that hard. And if a compressor is hardly working, you're hardly noticing its effects. But your resulting recording will be much less "hot" and ready for more fun.

By the way, as long as we're on the subject, feel free to try the other built-in effects on that track. See how T7's chorus or flanger work on your bass. Just put those plugins AFTER the compressor.

Also, consider using the low pass filter: the LPF can cut out any messy fret noises or string wipes from your bass if you don't want them for a particular song. Put that before or after the compressor, and see which you like better. Sometimes it's better to have a cleaner sound hit the compressor, other times you might want a little more compression before it gets to the filter.

Have fun!

Hello.

Thanks again for your advice on sorting out my bass guitar presets.

I set compression levels around your guide and then worked through and adjusted all my bass guitar presets. I placed the T7 compressor between 2 level meters and monitored the levels as well as monitoring with a VU meter. I kept all the compression levels the same(and saved as a preset which I'll use when recording) for each bass preset and then adjusted my amplitube 4 amp/cab/input/output/effect levels to achieve a good tone and a peak of around -6db.

I think they're all sounding pretty good now and hopefully ready to record soon.

I hope you don't mind me asking another question. I'm now working through all my guitar presets and trying to get them all at better levels. I have some nice clean delay settings which sound good but there's a problem with a few of them. On a few of the presets, when I hit the low string, it's quite boomy and takes the peak level well into the red, although when playing all other strings, the levels are good. Other than simply turning everything further down and possibly affecting the tone, is there any other way of dealing with this low string issue? I thought maybe using the low/high pass filter plugin might work but not sure.

Thanks again for all your clear guidance.

[Watchful]

Well, I like how you're thinking--isolating the note(s) in question that are peaking. But a filter will definitely reduce the tone in a way you probably won't like by making your bassier notes sound thin.

The trick here is that anything you do *after* the input is the way it's going to record, so if you don't like how the compressor is affecting the tone on some presets, you'll have having it record that way.

The issue is actually happening *before* it's getting to T7. All that's happening is that T7 is sending the overloaded signal into the track...assuming you're seeing both the track meter *and* the master bus going into the red.

Ideally, you'd want a multiband compressor between your guitar and your interface, but that's probably not going to happen.

So you could add a VST on your track--like you're doing with the T7 compressor. Just bear in mind that by doing so, you're going to record the distortion and its compressed output, since it's already going into T7. But you might be more than okay with the results.

I found a free multiband compressor for you to try. I haven't used it myself, but it seems competently done.

https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2020/0 ... -free-vst/

You're going to want to use this between your level meters on the track, and just compress the lower frequency bands (where the bassy booming is happening from your E string). The idea is that can compress the lower sounds more than the higher sounds, so it doesn't compress your output as much.

That's probably more instruction than you need--at this point, you've got a lot of experience with compressors!

Good luck. Let me know if it works.

[I will follow]

Thanks again - I'll give this a go and hopefully this will sort it out.

[I will follow]

If you had to choose just one compressor/limiter plugin to use for mixing & mastering drums, bass, guitar and keyboard, what would it be?

[Watchful]

Izotope's Ozone for mastering, although it can do a lot of mixing chores.

Izotope's Neutron for mixing.

I use these because they each do a bunch of other things fairly seamlessly, but let you fine-tune everything if you don't like what they're doing on their own. They're not free, though.

[I will follow]

Good evening

With your help, I've now managed to record a few tracks without clipping - thanks for that!

I'm now at the mixing stage and once again, could do with your help.

1 Tracks recorded at decent levels - no clipping- 1 stereo drum mix, 3 electric and 1 electro-acoustic tracks, 1 bass guitar and will add a midi keyboard track. No vocals yet

2. All guitar tracks were recorded with Amplitube 4 on along with effects to get the tone right. Bass guitar was compressed

3.I'm intending to use an SSL G-Master Buss Compressor plugin & an SSL EQ plugin for mixing and keep things as simple as possible

Ideally, I'm looking for a straight forward steps or typical process to follow when mixing these tracks and any others. There's a lot of good info out there but it can be contradictory at times.

I'm still a bit unclear whether to :
Compress and/or EQ each individual track, then compress/EQ again by placing the compressor and EQ plugins into the Master Plugin section
OR
Compress/EQ all tracks using the Master Plugins section rather than individually

A couple of further questions related to mixing:

Do I balance each of the tracks simply by using the Volume fader plugin on each track? If so, would you recommend doing this before adding any compression/EQ or after?

After adjusting volume faders, should I still be aiming for each track to be peaking at around the -18db level?

Would you recommend compressing/EQ'ing at the beginning or end of the mix? Does it matter?

The Drum Track is already stereo mixed - should I just move it straight into the Drum Buss as it is?

Do I always need to create a BUSS for guitars, bass etc when mixing, even if for example, I only have one Bass Guitar or Drum track?

If required, at what point in the mixing process should I create a BUSS for guitar, bass etc.?

Once tracks have been moved to the relevant BUSS, is it a case of then balancing each BUSS using the volume faders with each at around -18db, then sending all to a Final Mix BUSS?


Thanks again to everyone for all the great advice so far - much appreciated.