How important is the piano roll to you?

[jens]

In regards of this thread, I wouldn't even know how to make music without the piano roll. Is there even a way? You can't seriously play in all of the instruments live, can you? I mean, you could, but... how? Timing will be bad. Arrangement will be a pain. I really can't imagine that. At least for electronic music.

First of all: not everybody here is doing "electronic music"

Then: Tangerine Dream, Vangelis, Klaus Schulze, Jean-Michel Jarre and so forth... most people would classsify them as mainly as "electronic music", I'd think....

[jens]

Ton answer the original question:

right now, the piano-roll to me personally is of minor importance. I mostly use it only now and then to edit drum-rhythms...
but I recently got a nice electronic drum-kit, so once I learnt to play it sufficiently well for my music I'll use it even less.

[N__K]

In regards of this thread, I wouldn't even know how to make music without the piano roll. Is there even a way? You can't seriously play in all of the instruments live, can you? I mean, you could, but... how? Timing will be bad. Arrangement will be a pain. I really can't imagine that. At least for electronic music.

While using the piano roll to create music is certainly valid given that you're using it and not just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, you really should explore gaining proficiency on an instrument. There's a feedback loop that develops over time between your brain and what comes out of the instrument that opens up realms you might not otherwise experience. It's also fun and rewarding. It's definitely worth the time (and admittedly, mental pain). A good dose of OCD helps.

(Emphasis mine)

Personally I don't see any problem with "throwing stuff at piano roll and seeing what sticks". It's just as valid as "grabbing an instrument and seeing what sticks".

For example, I'll never be as efficient at realtime playing of any instrument as I am at drawing notes into piano roll via pen display. I'd have to spend more time fixing/adjusting the recorded notes than it would take to simply draw them into the piano roll in the first place.

Otherwise I do agree that trying real-time playing via whatever physical interface can be enlightening, mind-expanding and fun, regardless of how good one ends up being at it. Personally I use a digital piano fairly often for developing ideas etc., even though in about 99,9% of cases I end up drawing the result into piano roll instead of "recording and fixing" the MIDI.


***

If I may add some potential forum drama bait - I think making music has for too long been "socially prescribed" mostly to people who have cognitive and motor abilities to play physical instruments [in real-time] well enough.

Drawing (or clicking, pushing, whatever) in piano rolls, step sequencers etc. with machine playing it exactly as programmed allows far more people to make music than before.

I see that as a very good thing in general. Aspirationally speaking, it's a positive step towards transhumanism. All technology by its very essence is human (there would be no wheel if there was no human need for it) and the more we technologically enhance ourselves as species, the further our abilities expand...

[chk071]

In regards of this thread, I wouldn't even know how to make music without the piano roll. Is there even a way? You can't seriously play in all of the instruments live, can you? I mean, you could, but... how? Timing will be bad. Arrangement will be a pain. I really can't imagine that. At least for electronic music.

First of all: not everybody here is doing "electronic music"

Then: Tangerine Dream, Vangelis, Klaus Schulze, Jean-Michel Jarre and so forth... most people would classsify them as mainly as "electronic music", I'd think....

Care to name some electronic music artists which haven't already been making music before 1980?

I surely didn't. And, I'm pretty sure even the ones you mentioned have ALL for the most part sequenced the stuff on their albums, and not played it in live, which is pretty much the same as drawing notes in the piano roll.

Also, I never said that "everybody here is doing electronic music". Please stop making up stuff. On the other hand, who cares about people playing in live guitars, bass or drums, in a thread titled "How important is the piano roll to you?". I'd agree though that the topic has to be documented better, rather than just throwing two sentences with very few words at people. But then, so are all the other threads by the OP as well, so.

[Kinh]

wha in hells name are you people tryin' ta say?

[whyterabbyt]

I see nothing wrong with encouraging discussion. Isn't that what forums are for?

Which food is good?

Soup.

[jens]

Also, I never said that "everybody here is doing electronic music". Please stop making up stuff. On the other hand, who cares about people playing in live guitars, bass or drums, in a thread titled "How important is the piano roll to you?". I'd agree though that the topic has to be documented better, rather than just throwing two sentences with very few words at people. But then, so are all the other threads by the OP as well, so.

So what the f**k are you trying to say here?


That you can record guitars, bass, drums as audio, but not synthesizers? What about piano? Fender Rhodes?


And why did you mention "electronic music" anyway? Do only "electronic musicians" use instruments that output MIDI?

As usual, your drivel makes little - if any - sense.

[pdxindy]

Personally I don't see any problem with "throwing stuff at piano roll and seeing what sticks". It's just as valid as "grabbing an instrument and seeing what sticks".

I don't think their point was about validity... the term validity is meaningless anyway.

There are however, experiences to be had with the playing of an instrument, (or singing for that matter), that are not found with programming notes.

If I may add some potential forum drama bait - I think making music has for too long been "socially prescribed" mostly to people who have cognitive and motor abilities to play physical instruments [in real-time] well enough.

Drawing (or clicking, pushing, whatever) in piano rolls, step sequencers etc. with machine playing it exactly as programmed allows far more people to make music than before.

I don't agree with that. The entrance to do that requires a computer and someone who wants to sit staring a screen and pushing buttons. That is not most of the human world.

Historically there have been lots of villages, say in Africa, where basically everyone sings, and or plays drums or other instruments and they do it individually, in groups and all together. That would be a far higher percentage of their population making music than the percentage of people programming notes on a computer.

[excuse me please]

Because you can make music without any knowledge with a piano roll. Without any instrument. If you want to play a real instrument it's possible someone at some wants to know what a chord is. For instance. Then they have to learn how to play that chord.

I'm pretty sure that is why electronic music is so popular: one can do stuff solely by using their ears and a piano roll. That's what CHK071 meant afaik and I think they are correct; because such producers were not distracted by physical tools or music theory, other than a (MIDI) keyboard, in most cases. Still they had enormous success in some cases.

Now... a keyboard looks like a MIDI piano roll. I wonder why... but the idea remains the same.

[pdxindy]

Because you can make music without any knowledge with a piano roll. Without any instrument.

You have to have a computer... and the knowledge of how to use the computer and make it make sounds.

You can make music without any device at all with your voice... and lots of simple instruments cost very little and can be used by anyone... for example, drums, shakers, bells, etc.

[chk071]

So what the f**k are you trying to say here?

Not in that tone dude. There's absolutely zero reason to swear at me.

[vurt]

In regards of this thread, I wouldn't even know how to make music without the piano roll. Is there even a way? You can't seriously play in all of the instruments live, can you? I mean, you could, but... how? Timing will be bad. Arrangement will be a pain. I really can't imagine that. At least for electronic music.

Anyway, the OP is of course allowed to ask anything. It's just that, without further explanation, this and other opinion polls will be quite purposeless.

never even seen the piano roll in samplitude or bidule (don't know if the latter even has one?)

[Erisian]

I see nothing wrong with encouraging discussion. Isn't that what forums are for?

Which food is good?

Piano roll.

[vurt]

I see nothing wrong with encouraging discussion. Isn't that what forums are for?

Which food is good?

Piano roll.

older pianos might not be vegan friendly.

[excuse me please]

Mozartkugeln