CLAP, the Plugin Format (of the future?)

[operator]

I would love to see Melda in the CLAP format... BUT also I want Vojtech to not waste time on formats which aren´t even in Version 1 if he isn`t very much interested in it. I opened this Thread to maybe get insight if he is curious about this format. Heck, maybe he even could be a contributer (would have loved to see/know about that). But we shouldn´t fight about it, or even arrgue to much...

Melda isn´t a huge money-grabbing-soulless-company and therfore has limited resources and those should be directed into the right directions and I totally get his point of view. I even support it! (though I would love to see CLAP support).

But I guess CLAP will be a thing no matter how big... and like in the Threadtitel stated ("of the future") I could imagine it replacing VST for many small developers in the future and getting more adapted over time. I would love to see power taken away from big companies and I guess CLAP is a step into this direction.

---my personal POV following, you can stop reading here if you think this is a waste of time---

In my main field of work I also stepped away from the "big one" (Adobe... f**k em) and went to alternatives (Affinity, Blender,...) because I don´t want to support such models/companies. This is not who I am, so I won´t have a part of it! I want to own something... not just rent it and being dependent on a working internet-connection to use a piece of software I have locally installed. I create my own world with all my given power in the image of my ideal. A balanced fair symbiosis between me and my customer/friend is very important to me... i want to deliver great services for a honest price (satisfiying for me and for them.) --> Made with tools and software which I can stand morally behind it with 100% of my integrity.

WE the customer/creatives have the power to show the money-grabbing-bigwigs where we come from.

[Hexspa]

I'm not opposed to big companies in principle. Like you said, some just seem to charge too much or otherwise make their product inaccessible. While I will argue against the concept that 'music is free', I want the poor to have access to tools as well. Thank goodness for free and low-cost software!

Related is the 'gotcha' practices of some companies like making transfers expensive, high-cost upgrades, suddenly dropping support for products, unresponsive support, and otherwise making it difficult to work with the company.

Luckily, there are many alternatives these days and that's how I found a number of cool companies like Melda.

[cousin_itt]

+1 for CLAP
There seem to be some big advantages that should be hard to overlook in the long-term:

Free and open license (vst2 deprecation is having negative effects on my workflow, I'm not alone)
Host controlled threads (this is a major pain for host and plugin devs. it leaves users scrambling to squeeze performance out of their systems by trial and error and hacks)

[Urs]

Ugh... honestly... the last thing the world needs is yet another plugin format...

I'd love to chat with you about this -> check you PM.

It would be great if you could give this a thought before you dismiss the idea entirely. Your portfolio would be a perfect match for areas that audio plug-ins have not reached yet. CLAP can get you there.

[Hexspa]

Ugh... honestly... the last thing the world needs is yet another plugin format...

I'd love to chat with you about this -> check you PM.

It would be great if you could give this a thought before you dismiss the idea entirely. Your portfolio would be a perfect match for areas that audio plug-ins have not reached yet. CLAP can get you there.

Looking forward to the day that Diva, Presswork and Satin are modules in MSF

[Held]

CLAP has been officially released. Here's a video showcasing some of its features:

[Hexspa]

To extend on Held's post (that video is mind-blowing for me right now), here's the bitwig email announcement page:

https://www.bitwig.com/stories/clap-the ... ndard-201/

Pretty interesting and I can't help but feel surprised and a bit dismayed that Melda isn't on these lists (yet). Surprising, really, since Melda seems to have led the way on so many features like multiband, macros, oversampling, and modulation everywhere; not to mention MSF's heavy MPE support.

[coroknight]

It's really sad to see one of my favorite plugin devs be so close minded about this. The potential is huge.

I really do think that VST's dominance has conditioned our brains into thinking there is no room for innovation beyond the features that VST offers.

For example, right now if you throw a VST plugin into your project you don't get a nice interface like native plugins. Instead you have to open the plugin in a separate window to view it. What if plugins could render a miniature version of themselves right there in your FX list? This is actually something that CLAP is investigating.

Another example. In bitwig the built-in delay effect allows you to insert plugins into the feedback signal path. Same with other FX like the built-in reverb. What if CLAP plugins could be nested? What if MReverb could allow you to insert your own FX into various places in the signal path?

These are just a couple examples, but these features are pretty much infeasible with the way VST is setup. Technically it would be a pain in the ass and socially, good luck convincing Steinberg to implement them. Since CLAP is simple, free, and developed publicly these features become a LOT more feasible.

[Nspace]

@coroknight I wouldn't be so definitive in calling Vojtech's opinions on recent ideas. He has built a unique and already large trajectory based among many things, in strength and determination on following his own frameworks, which understandably facilitates him taking fast decisions along the way.

Thankfully those initial reactions have most never been set on stone (he might hold a prospective map with degrees of solidity), so already from some years ago has been common in this forum to read his initial nos/dismissals as "we'll see" really, and later on to witness those FRs being implemented at one of the frequent and populated version updates...

[noizejoy]

I can't help but wonder, why Melda - with some of the industry's most sophisticated parameter modulation capability already in their plugins - would want to support giving up that competitive edge to more universal host based parameter modulation.

[MirkoVanHauten]

I can't help but wonder, why Melda - with some of the industry's most sophisticated parameter modulation capability already in their plugins - would want to support giving up that competitive edge to more universal host based parameter modulation.

That "competitive edge" would be gone either way if suddenly all other plugins can have per note (!) in depth automation & modulation with no effort...

[aMUSEd]

It's really sad to see one of my favorite plugin devs be so close minded about this. The potential is huge.

I don't think it's 'closed minded' - it's a valid opinion to question whether this is yet another plugin standard. I hope on closer examination he will see that it's much more than that, but I can understand and respect that POV.

[Held]

I can't help but wonder, why Melda - with some of the industry's most sophisticated parameter modulation capability already in their plugins - would want to support giving up that competitive edge to more universal host based parameter modulation.

I agree that Melda would probably benefit the least from a CLAP version given its already extensive modulation.

However, that competitive advantage might disappear if hosts and plugins can collaborate to implement modulation with minimal effort.

It's time for Vojtech to get creative again.

[Hexspa]

For all we know, we'll have clap in V16. I'd honestly be surprised if he doesn't adopt it by 17. Besides functionality, it's a selling point. How many of us want the newest thing? This is that and there's free promo.

[Tagirijus]

I wouldn´t quit Reaper that fast...

Regarding this, the first thing, which came to my mind is this:

https://u-he.com/community/clap/

There you can see Cockos on the list of "Following companies and projects are already evaluating CLAP for their host and plug-in software". So I am cool with that, hehe.


Regarding the whole discussion: as far as I unsertand it, it is a new promising and future-proof plugin standard, right? Also it is open source, which - in my eyes - is the first best step to loosen the straps from capitalism. Steinberg clearly acts profit-oriented after all, or doesn't it? Removing this motivation from the equation you will have left the pure motivation of doing something good or out of curiosity. To me this sounds way more promising than every profit-driven motivated behaviour. But who am I to judge. Maybe I am just too utopian thinking that money should not be the thing anymore in the future, which rules the world. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Oh - and in case somebody will mention "Then why not LV2, which is there already?" I found this post by EvilDragon in the VI Control forum: https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... st-5005238

I have to admit at some point that I am not technically experienced in the way that I can join the discussion in a technical way, for sure not! But I am just thinking about the "proprietary vs open source / public domain" thoughts. And I am totally pro-open source in the end, since I have the deep conviction that this is one of the best things for the future. And for sure: I could be wrong, who knows. (-;