u-he @ Superbooth 25 - Zebra 3, Uhbik 2, Cen2rion, CVilization

[surreal]

For some reason I thought that the fm oscs and regular oscs were going to be merged, or was it just that the regular oscs were going to be able to fm each other as well? I see in the screen shot there are still separate oscs and fmoscs. Will it be possible to use the wavetable oscs to fm modulate each other as well?

We leave the decision open in regards to making normal oscillators into FM carriers. It probably won't happen now, but it might happen later.

The new FMOs have some features up their sleeves that go beyond the previous ones. First of all, they have a built in modulator and carrier pair, plus a feedback chain. Secondly, the input from other modules and the feedback can be routed in various ways.

But most importantly, each path has special options, such that apart from classic DX-style FM there is also Thru Zero FM and ModFM, a concept that creates more naturally sounding harmonic structures than DX-style. Those options can be freely combined across Input, Modulator and Feedback (there are different sets of options in each, the feedback path also has a squared DX style for focus on odd harmonic generation)

Also, we have found a great way of aliasing suppression.

Hence, we found that dedicated FMOs add quite a bit more flavour than just merging all that into the normal oscillators.

please keep the configuration like this Urs!!

[surreal]

Congrats on all this progress. I can't wait to see some of the videos of the likes of Sonicstate to see it in action.
Is there any planned update for Diva? It's still my go-to synth and I'm sure it could use some TLC ...

So, our focus for Sonicstate is going to be Cen2rion and Uhbik as we already did a Zebra 3 preview at NAMM, even though we had a lot fewer modules to show than we do now.

Our development team will soon focus on exactly those areas that are needed to update Diva. We have concentrated incredible knowledge about filter modelling and young talent in our development team, so we hope to seamlessly move over from Zebra 3 development to Diva development in a few months. This will take time, but we're all excited to get there.

the only two things i wish for in Diva is Parallel filtering and to include hives effects and filters as well as Zebra 2 filters in Diva... Almost like the polar opposite of Zebra Hz whereby Diva gets Zebra 2 Filters, parallel filtering and more effects and the beatifull reverb of hive!

[surreal]

oh yes, Sorry and to gainstage the filters properly in Diva to set the oscillators levels pre-filter....

[Shabdahbriah]

Congrats on all this progress. I can't wait to see some of the videos of the likes of Sonicstate to see it in action.
[...]

So, our focus for Sonicstate is going to be Cen2rion and Uhbik as we already did a Zebra 3 preview at NAMM, even though we had a lot fewer modules to show than we do now.[...]

Indeed! Congratulations on all the progress made. Sooo looking forward to a Sonicstate reveal on the Uhbiks. Although the UI of the originals was definitely a large part of my being an early (at introduction) adopter, I really really like the new look and modulation area.

Love the name "Cen2rion"... very clever.

I'll make some Grain Dad presets: "Lords of Kobol" and "felgercarb".

[Urs]

Thank you, Urs, and sorry for not being more accurate in my question : i meant : is there any change or new features since the first/last betas (the Uhbiks released a couple years ago, where the compressor was already featured, and not the very first generation of Uhbiks)?
No changes to the reverb, for example?

I honestly don't remember. There were hundreds of tickets after the first 2.0 alpha. I'm quite sure there were some requests for the new reverb algorithm that were taken care of. Probably also for the new compressor.

So all the original algorithms should have remained the same - just react better to modulation. The new algos might have changed slightly.

As for the modulations... there were changes. Mostly, things that didn't work (e.g. side chain for envelope follower), they work now. In the old alpha, the envelope, the LFO and the Mapper were rather side by side entities. In the betas, they complement each other. You can use the LFO to trigger the Mapper, and run the Mapper through the envelope follower to shape each step with an envelope.

IIRC many of the new gain staging parameters are a result of user feedback, after we released the alphas.

So yeah, some changes. I can't say if a preset made with the alpha will sound the same. I reckon, most will. Some will sound slightly different, probably need some adjustment.

[Korg Supporter]

What's the point of getting Bazille when Zebra 3 will become a more powerful and interesting FM synth?

[Urs]

Can't wait for Zebra 3, Uhbik UI is sick too. Congratulations!
Edit: Is is possible to upgrade to from Zebra 2 to Zebra 3 now?

So... depends.

We always said that anyone who invested in the original Zebra 2 and The Dark Zebra will get a free update. Many of those had more soundsets, too, so a 300+€ investment, and this will be honoured by a free upgrade. Simple as that. You have Z2 + TDZ, you'll get Z3 in your account automatically.

(as a matter of caution, I feel obliged to mention, people who upgrade from Z2 to Z3 can't transfer licenses separately, but we will be happy to do license transfers of both then, to the same person)

Likewise, we always said that people who had bought Zebra2 before the switch to Zebra Legacy will get a 30€ upgrade path. That's also gonna happen exactly as we said.

Now, Zebra Legacy. We always saw ZL as a major bargain, and it would not be fair to those who invested thrice or more, if Zebra Legacy had the same entitlements. And that's common sense. Zebra 3 will be priced somewhere between 249€ and 299€. No-one should expect that buying a 99€ product is a 30€ upgrade to a 200+€ product. It doesn't make sense.

(so when you factor inflation into the original concept of a 249€ Zebra 3 from 2012, this would be 320€ today... ugh...)

However, we're discussing options. Zebra Legacy has become more successful than we ever thought. So we're discussing options to somehow make good on that. There's a good chance that people who bought Zebra Legacy will get a benefit, maybe in the vicinity of a 50€ coupon *towards* Z3, and separated licenses (individually transferable).

What stands against this is our wish to introduce Zebra 3 with some kind of introduction offer. This can't be more than what ZL owners get. But it could be the same, and then it could last longer for ZL owner. But then it becomes kind of difficult. How can one communicate this?

It's difficult, controversial even. So what's clear, more or less, is that

- Z2+TDZ = free upgrade, licenses attached to each other
- Z2 = 30€ upgrade, licenses attached to each other
- ZL = maybe sth like a 50€ coupon code, probably no strings attached
- new user = maybe an introduction offer, probably during public beta phase

We'll have a lot of thinking and feeling out to do.

[0degree]

Can't wait for Zebra 3, Uhbik UI is sick too. Congratulations!
Edit: Is is possible to upgrade to from Zebra 2 to Zebra 3 now?

So... depends.

We always said that anyone who invested in the original Zebra 2 and The Dark Zebra will get a free update. Many of those had more soundsets, too, so a 300+€ investment, and this will be honoured by a free upgrade. Simple as that. You have Z2 + TDZ, you'll get Z3 in your account automatically.

(as a matter of caution, I feel obliged to mention, people who upgrade from Z2 to Z3 can't transfer licenses separately, but we will be happy to do license transfers of both then, to the same person)

Likewise, we always said that people who had bought Zebra2 before the switch to Zebra Legacy will get a 30€ upgrade path. That's also gonna happen exactly as we said.

Now, Zebra Legacy. We always saw ZL as a major bargain, and it would not be fair to those who invested thrice or more, if Zebra Legacy had the same entitlements. And that's common sense. Zebra 3 will be priced somewhere between 249€ and 299€. No-one should expect that buying a 99€ product is a 30€ upgrade to a 200+€ product. It doesn't make sense.

(so when you factor inflation into the original concept of a 249€ Zebra 3 from 2012, this would be 320€ today... ugh...)

However, we're discussing options. Zebra Legacy has become more successful than we ever thought. So we're discussing options to somehow make good on that. There's a good chance that people who bought Zebra Legacy will get a benefit, maybe in the vicinity of a 50€ coupon *towards* Z3, and separated licenses (individually transferable).

What stands against this is our wish to introduce Zebra 3 with some kind of introduction offer. This can't be more than what ZL owners get. But it could be the same, and then it could last longer for ZL owner. But then it becomes kind of difficult. How can one communicate this?

It's difficult, controversial even. So what's clear, more or less, is that

- Z2+TDZ = free upgrade, licenses attached to each other
- Z2 = 30€ upgrade, licenses attached to each other
- ZL = maybe sth like a 50€ coupon code, probably no strings attached
- new user = maybe an introduction offer, probably during public beta phase

We'll have a lot of thinking and feeling out to do.

Sorry Urs, my question was more like "is it possible to purchase the upgrade already?" because I only have Z2 and if memory serves me well you said there would be a way to "preorder" the Z3. Thanks

[Shiek927]

Happy to see Z3 continuing to come along!! compared to Zebra2, remind me again what will Zebra3 won't have? I imagine Z3 will be pretty substantial even at launch

[Urs]

What's the point of getting Bazille when Zebra 3 will become a more powerful and interesting FM synth?

Very different concepts. They're both be crazy good for different things.

I'd happily risk something by saying, for the matter of FM, the main difference is UI and UX. Zebra has a very dynamic UI that people might have to get used to and learn to work with. It's great when you do, but not because of FM, it's because of what's beyond FM. Bazille otoh has a static UI on a single page for FM. Which allows for incredibly complex routings with a lot of ease.

I can't think of approaches to FM - and sound design - that are any more different than Zebra and Bazille.

[Urs]

Sorry Urs, my question was more like "is it possible to purchase the upgrade already?" because I only have Z2 and if memory serves me well you said there would be a way to "preorder" the Z3. Thanks

Oh... that must have been some time ago...

Hmmm, as of today I think there's no need to pre-order the upgrade. I don't recall if we ever had pre-orders on upgrades.

In any case, I would always recommend to demo what you get, and as long as we're not feature complete, it's just not really certain what the final things looks like.

Best to wait until you can demo it!

[0degree]

Sorry Urs, my question was more like "is it possible to purchase the upgrade already?" because I only have Z2 and if memory serves me well you said there would be a way to "preorder" the Z3. Thanks

Oh... that must have been some time ago...

Hmmm, as of today I think there's no need to pre-order the upgrade. I don't recall if we ever had pre-orders on upgrades.

In any case, I would always recommend to demo what you get, and as long as we're not feature complete, it's just not really certain what the final things looks like.

Best to wait until you can demo it!

Fair enough, maybe my memory is not working as expected

Thank you!

[jtsterays]

With the amount of complexities of all the Osc types and modulations in Z3, I feel like it could recreate almost any sounds if the user was capable enough. Did you ever thought about doing something similar to Synplant 2 AI genopatch? IIRC that synth only has 2 osc and it did quite a good job at recreating, now imagine Z3.

[Urs]

Happy to see Z3 continuing to come along!! compared to Zebra2, remind me again what will Zebra3 won't have? I imagine Z3 will be pretty substantial even at launch

Z3 will be very substantial I think, mostly on the synthesis side.

It won't initially have an arpeggiator or a dedicated sequencer. That's because we added so many options to do similar things to the voice level, and we want to design any form of arpeggiator or sequencing to integrate with the voice possibilities, if possible. So we decided to do this later.

There are quite a few of such areas where we (or I...) need the experience first before we can make the final decision on where to take it. Like, we don't have dynamics yet, no compressors or limiters. We're currently about to settle on a concept for DC filtering within the signal flow.

There's still a lot of work ahead, and some of it will have to happen for subsequent updates.

[sinkmusic]

Thank you, Urs, and sorry for not being more accurate in my question : i meant : is there any change or new features since the first/last betas (the Uhbiks released a couple years ago, where the compressor was already featured, and not the very first generation of Uhbiks)?
No changes to the reverb, for example?

I honestly don't remember. There were hundreds of tickets after the first 2.0 alpha. I'm quite sure there were some requests for the new reverb algorithm that were taken care of. Probably also for the new compressor.

So all the original algorithms should have remained the same - just react better to modulation. The new algos might have changed slightly.

As for the modulations... there were changes. Mostly, things that didn't work (e.g. side chain for envelope follower), they work now. In the old alpha, the envelope, the LFO and the Mapper were rather side by side entities. In the betas, they complement each other. You can use the LFO to trigger the Mapper, and run the Mapper through the envelope follower to shape each step with an envelope.

IIRC many of the new gain staging parameters are a result of user feedback, after we released the alphas.

So yeah, some changes. I can't say if a preset made with the alpha will sound the same. I reckon, most will. Some will sound slightly different, probably need some adjustment.

Thank you