Waveform Pro version 13.5.13 Constantly Crashing (and Biotek 2/3 was crashing WF before the update)

[pough]

There's no rhyme or reason to this. I told tech support that, andecdotally, .13 is unstable, so they take down the last stable version??

The question is, unstable for whom? There is differences in hardware, differences in OS, differences in drivers, differences in workflow... If 13.5.8 was stable for 95% of users and 13.5.13 is stable for 96% of users and you just happen to be one of the 95% in the former but 4% in the latter then it will seem as though they have released a "less-stable" version. It's not universal.

I do hope things work out for you. I'm fortunate enough to have been in the 95% and 96% groups, but that's just luck on my part. I've been part of the unfortunate group other times.

NOTE: all numbers made up. I don't know how many users there are, nor do I know how many are having issues.

[Sweeto-k]

There's no rhyme or reason to this. I told tech support that, andecdotally, .13 is unstable, so they take down the last stable version??

The question is, unstable for whom? There is differences in hardware, differences in OS, differences in drivers, differences in workflow... If 13.5.8 was stable for 95% of users and 13.5.13 is stable for 96% of users and you just happen to be one of the 95% in the former but 4% in the latter then it will seem as though they have released a "less-stable" version. It's not universal.

I do hope things work out for you. I'm fortunate enough to have been in the 95% and 96% groups, but that's just luck on my part. I've been part of the unfortunate group other times.

NOTE: all numbers made up. I don't know how many users there are, nor do I know how many are having issues.

I finally got a answer from support and it confirmed what I had found on facebook.
I was advised to reinstall 13.5.8
Which if I had waited for my response and hadnt got it from elswhere I wouldnt have been able to as its been removed from my account.
The problem is with JUCE.
Juce is the framework for waveform
No idea if that has been fixed as nothing about 13.5.13 now being stable was mentioned .
So all a bit of a lottery downloading the latest update if it hasnt for that hypothetical 4%

[NeoRasa]

I was having this same problem, Hyperion and several other plugins were causing an almost instant crash over and over on Windows 11 with Waveform Pro 13.5.13.

For me the fix was to go to Settings -> Advanced -> Performance -> GPU Rendering Mode and to change it to software renderer. As soon as I did that it stopped crashing.

[GuitarPlayerinNYC]

There's no rhyme or reason to this. I told tech support that, andecdotally, .13 is unstable, so they take down the last stable version??

The question is, unstable for whom? There is differences in hardware, differences in OS, differences in drivers, differences in workflow... If 13.5.8 was stable for 95% of users and 13.5.13 is stable for 96% of users and you just happen to be one of the 95% in the former but 4% in the latter then it will seem as though they have released a "less-stable" version. It's not universal.

I do hope things work out for you. I'm fortunate enough to have been in the 95% and 96% groups, but that's just luck on my part. I've been part of the unfortunate group other times.

NOTE: all numbers made up. I don't know how many users there are, nor do I know how many are having issues.

I get what you're saying, and in the scheme of things, Tracktion/Waveform has been 100% stable for me. It wasn't until I got a new laptop, and installed WF 13.5.13 that I ran into problems, with Tracktion products of all things. I've never had a vst plugin crash the whole DAW.

I did say I think it's more a Windows thing, than a Tracktion thing, but, who knows? I have a million plugins, and don't think it's unreasonable to have a plugin made for, or by Tracktion developers, to work within their own product.

There's some plugin makers that have dislaimers, e.g. "tested only on <names the big 10 DAWs>"- along with Mac OSes.

I do think I was commenting more on the availability of prior versions that have no rhyme or reason. 13.5.8 is no longer available to me, but versions going back to T6, T7, and WF 11 are. I have WF 13 and WF 13.5 listed on my download page, but both are version .13. That's where the "no rhyme or reason" comment came from.

Biotek 2 is working (but not Attraktive) after I installed WF 11. Biotek 3 doesn't work in either version. I have a couple hundred bucks in content I paid for that's compatible with Bio3 only.

My frustration level hit its limit having had hardware probs (new midi keyboard wasn't recognized by WF). After plugging the keyboard into the new system, everything works seamlessly. The problem and solution is as speculative as what I'm dealing with Biotek.

Edit: to be clear, Bio2 works in WF 13.5.8. I uninstalled WF 11. There's the latest version, and Beta versions available. I'm almost tempted to try 'em, but I think I'll be sensible for once, and cut my losses.

[GuitarPlayerinNYC]

There's no rhyme or reason to this. I told tech support that, andecdotally, .13 is unstable, so they take down the last stable version??

The question is, unstable for whom? There is differences in hardware, differences in OS, differences in drivers, differences in workflow... If 13.5.8 was stable for 95% of users and 13.5.13 is stable for 96% of users and you just happen to be one of the 95% in the former but 4% in the latter then it will seem as though they have released a "less-stable" version. It's not universal.

I do hope things work out for you. I'm fortunate enough to have been in the 95% and 96% groups, but that's just luck on my part. I've been part of the unfortunate group other times.

NOTE: all numbers made up. I don't know how many users there are, nor do I know how many are having issues.

I finally got a answer from support and it confirmed what I had found on facebook.
I was advised to reinstall 13.5.8
Which if I had waited for my response and hadnt got it from elswhere I wouldnt have been able to as its been removed from my account.
The problem is with JUCE.
Juce is the framework for waveform
No idea if that has been fixed as nothing about 13.5.13 now being stable was mentioned .
So all a bit of a lottery downloading the latest update if it hasnt for that hypothetical 4%

I still haven't heard from support. 13.5.8 is no longer listed for d/l but Traktion 6.7 and 11 are.

I installed WF 11, and Biotek 2 works, but not Bio3 or Attraktive. I was working with a Cinematic expansion pack that works only with Bio3, and I have other Bio3 content that's now useless to me.

I've heard JUCE as a culprit for many things, but I'm not a developer. Overall, WF has been super solid for me.

Did support say it was a JUCE problem?

I still think Tracktion innovates. Off and on, I've thought of changing DAWs, but I'd rather get a root canal, than expend the time in learning a new DAW.

Edit: FYI- since you're into synths- https://www.coolwav.com/ has a sale for $10, and a ton free samples. I don't think I can resist this one.

[GuitarPlayerinNYC]

I was having this same problem, Hyperion and several other plugins were causing an almost instant crash over and over on Windows 11 with Waveform Pro 13.5.13.

For me the fix was to go to Settings -> Advanced -> Performance -> GPU Rendering Mode and to change it to software renderer. As soon as I did that it stopped crashing.

Yeah, that was one of the first things I did, but, nope.

I have the new Intel Arc GPU- no idea if that's the culprit.

BTW, I got a notification for a big Windows update. I'm dreading it. It's supposed to be a "major" update. Who knows? It may fix my problem.

I've been dealing with Windows since Win '95. I feel like I could do tech support for them. So far, I'm not happy with all the CoPilot AI stuff. When I have the time, I'll turn it all off- if I can. I've read that MS is forcing a lot of crap on us.

[pough]

I've never had a vst plugin crash the whole DAW.

I have, many times. Sometimes it's just in Waveform but sometimes it's universal. I use multiple DAWs in part because I like different workflows but also because it helps me to be able to know who to report issues to.

I did say I think it's more a Windows thing, than a Tracktion thing, but, who knows? I have a million plugins, and don't think it's unreasonable to have a plugin made for, or by Tracktion developers, to work within their own product.

That's not unreasonable, but I don't think this latest issue cropped up for any of the testers of 13.5.13 or they wouldn't have put it out into wide release. I'm very curious to know if the new beta would solve the issue you were having. The release notes only seem to mention crashes due to certain fonts being installed. Some others who were having issues with 13.5.13 have mentioned that 13.5.15 solves their problems. I never had any crashes, so I don't know.

I do think I was commenting more on the availability of prior versions that have no rhyme or reason. 13.5.8 is no longer available to me, but versions going back to T6, T7, and WF 11 are. I have WF 13 and WF 13.5 listed on my download page, but both are version .13. That's where the "no rhyme or reason" comment came from.

Yeah, I totally agree. Having older versions available is a very good thing. I keep old versions locally, but I don't think we should need to. What they currently do - keeping the most recent point version of each major version - is decent but I would like to see more.

[pough]

By they way, here is the ChangeList for the 13.5.15 beta:

13.5.15
- Comping: Fixed a glitch that could happen after the first comp segment
- FourOSC: Improved timing of note events

13.5.14
- Windows: Fixed crashes on some systems with specific fonts installed
- UI: Performance improvements particularly when rendering lots of text

[GuitarPlayerinNYC]

I have, many times. Sometimes it's just in Waveform but sometimes it's universal. I use multiple DAWs in part because I like different workflows but also because it helps me to be able to know who to report issues to.

Hmm...maybe you're the unlucky one. I'm a plugin hoarder. If it's cheap, or free, I'll often try it, along with the many paid plugins, never a crash, only frozen screens from using up too many resources.

What's your main DAW? I've had the Ableton lite license since forever, and could load that, but I tried loading Biotek3 into Kontakt Komplete, and that crashed, but Biotek 2 doesn't. How/why Biotek 2 sprang into life after installing WF 11 is a mystery to me. Do you have a preference in DAWs?

That's not unreasonable, but I don't think this latest issue cropped up for any of the testers of 13.5.13 or they wouldn't have put it out into wide release. I'm very curious to know if the new beta would solve the issue you were having. The release notes only seem to mention crashes due to certain fonts being installed. Some others who were having issues with 13.5.13 have mentioned that 13.5.15 solves their problems. I never had any crashes, so I don't know.

I have no idea how testing is done. I'd think they address the problem, and would kind of know enough that there's no necessity check on everything. Like, if you got new tires, would you check the carburetor?

If I have the installer for an earlier version of Biotek 3, I may try that, before trying other versions of WF. Or, maybe I'll try 13.5.13 again. Reverting back to .8 didn't cause major changes in my settings- I did have to do things like, change cursor behavior, and a bunch of other things, but after learning I can export my settings, and saving a copy of my waveform.settings file saved me me a lot of grief.

One thing sticks in my mind. After a reinstallation of of both versions of WF 13, I didn't get the "Accept" the terms of agreement page, and have to reauthorize, or even set my midi keyboard up in Control Surfaces, or Midi devices. And this was before I imported my settings, and put the waveform.settings file back (which saved me the problem of where to direct my saved projects to an external SSD).

Yeah, I totally agree. Having older versions available is a very good thing. I keep old versions locally, but I don't think we should need to. What they currently do - keeping the most recent point version of each major version - is decent but I would like to see more.

I just don't get having a version that's literally 15 years old available.

First world problems, but I've been dealing with other issues, like a malfunctioning midi keyboard, and some stubborn plugins. Their tech support solved my problem in 2 emails. BTW, the new midi keyboard is the Arturia Keylab mk3 49. It was literally plug and play. I was having trouble with it on my old laptop, and that's what moved me to get a new laptop as well. Not crazy about spending nearly $2k, but almost 6 years for a Windows pc is a good run. I can now have a browser with 20 tabs, and WF running with 20 plugins, and I get barely a hiccup.

Thanks for the list of updates. I don't comp enough to care right now.

[pough]

Hmm...maybe you're the unlucky one.

I guess it depends on how you define "many". I've been playing with hundreds (thousands?) of plugins over a 20+ year timespan. Things crop up. Not hundreds. Maybe a few dozen? I haven't kept track.

... never a crash...

Didn't you start this thread?

What's your main DAW? ... Do you have a preference in DAWs?

Waveform is my main DAW. I also use FL Studio. I would never use FL Studio to record songs with audio, but it's great for electronic stuff. I have Reaper installed just to double-check plugins. I have, in the past, used Cubase (hated it), StudioOne (meh) and energyXT (I miss it.)

I have no idea how testing is done. I'd think they address the problem, and would kind of know enough that there's no necessity check on everything. Like, if you got new tires, would you check the carburetor?

Software is... special. Who would have guess that an update to the framework would conflict with some fonts somewhere, and who would think to test that? At least, that seems to be what happened. I wonder what the fonts are... Apparently it's not any font that I have installed.

I just don't get having a version that's literally 15 years old available.

The people who only bought that version and never upgraded do. I've also found that some very old projects don't load right in newer versions so old versions can be handy.

[Sweeto-k]

There's no rhyme or reason to this. I told tech support that, andecdotally, .13 is unstable, so they take down the last stable version??

The question is, unstable for whom? There is differences in hardware, differences in OS, differences in drivers, differences in workflow... If 13.5.8 was stable for 95% of users and 13.5.13 is stable for 96% of users and you just happen to be one of the 95% in the former but 4% in the latter then it will seem as though they have released a "less-stable" version. It's not universal.

I do hope things work out for you. I'm fortunate enough to have been in the 95% and 96% groups, but that's just luck on my part. I've been part of the unfortunate group other times.

NOTE: all numbers made up. I don't know how many users there are, nor do I know how many are having issues.

I finally got a answer from support and it confirmed what I had found on facebook.
I was advised to reinstall 13.5.8
Which if I had waited for my response and hadnt got it from elswhere I wouldnt have been able to as its been removed from my account.
The problem is with JUCE.
Juce is the framework for waveform
No idea if that has been fixed as nothing about 13.5.13 now being stable was mentioned .
So all a bit of a lottery downloading the latest update if it hasnt for that hypothetical 4%

I still haven't heard from support. 13.5.8 is no longer listed for d/l but Traktion 6.7 and 11 are.

I installed WF 11, and Biotek 2 works, but not Bio3 or Attraktive. I was working with a Cinematic expansion pack that works only with Bio3, and I have other Bio3 content that's now useless to me.

I've heard JUCE as a culprit for many things, but I'm not a developer. Overall, WF has been super solid for me.

Did support say it was a JUCE problem?

I still think Tracktion innovates. Off and on, I've thought of changing DAWs, but I'd rather get a root canal, than expend the time in learning a new DAW.

Edit: FYI- since you're into synths- https://www.coolwav.com/ has a sale for $10, and a ton free samples. I don't think I can resist this one.

Yes they came back and advised that "Their is a bug in Juce and to reinstal the previous version"
As I advised I had already read in Facebook anyway.
And already reverted back to previous version after the help on here and before it was removed from the Downloads in Tracktions website.
I am abroad and away from my Laptop at the mo so cant confirm if ant of the latest updates work or not.

[GuitarPlayerinNYC]

I guess it depends on how you define "many". I've been playing with hundreds (thousands?) of plugins over a 20+ year timespan. Things crop up. Not hundreds. Maybe a few dozen? I haven't kept track.

KVR manager says I have over 400, lol. I think there's duplicate VSTs, e.g. Vst2 & VST3

... never a crash...

Didn't you start this thread?

Haha, touché Biotek2 is crashing my other plugins, but I don't think that counts.

Waveform is my main DAW. I also use FL Studio. I would never use FL Studio to record songs with audio, but it's great for electronic stuff. I have Reaper installed just to double-check plugins. I have, in the past, used Cubase (hated it), StudioOne (meh) and energyXT (I miss it.)

Guess I'm a Tracktion loyalist- even though it was Tracktion that kept me from using my midi keyboard for over 10 years. Every iteration wouldn't recognize it.It took a KVR member who suggested I delete the tracktion.settings file that fixed the problem.

Anytime I look at another DAW, I don't have the energy to even begin. I'm still very much a novice when it comes to things like automating things, and lots more. I don't even punch in, when it would likely save me time. I always get lost in creating submix tracks. I entered a remix contest last spring, and was dealing with 50+ tracks. What a mess, but I managed to get my I entry in.

I may load Ableton. There's a sale for an upgrade. I'd go for the middle tier one. I'd do this mostly because there's way more tutorials on Ableton.

Software is... special. Who would have guess that an update to the framework would conflict with some fonts somewhere, and who would think to test that? At least, that seems to be what happened. I wonder what the fonts are... Apparently it's not any font that I have installed.

I think "fonts" in this case is "soundfonts/midi soundfonts;" something to do with loading samples to make sound.

The people who only bought that version and never upgraded do. I've also found that some very old projects don't load right in newer versions so old versions can be handy.

Eh, I guess. I still have all my old laptops that have only audio of me playing my guitar on tracks others provided.

My saga continues. Today, WF wasn't recognizing my midi keyboard. I set a restore point, and updated to 13.5.13. It made things worse (screen freeze) plugins crashing. I tried to go back to the restore point, but it didn't take, possibly due to my antivirus program.

Now I have to dig up the .8 installation file and downgrade. Haven't heard peep from support. I'm losing my mind and lost momentum on the projects I was working on from all the troubleshooting I'm doing.

[GuitarPlayerinNYC]

There's no rhyme or reason to this. I told tech support that, andecdotally, .13 is unstable, so they take down the last stable version??

The question is, unstable for whom? There is differences in hardware, differences in OS, differences in drivers, differences in workflow... If 13.5.8 was stable for 95% of users and 13.5.13 is stable for 96% of users and you just happen to be one of the 95% in the former but 4% in the latter then it will seem as though they have released a "less-stable" version. It's not universal.

I do hope things work out for you. I'm fortunate enough to have been in the 95% and 96% groups, but that's just luck on my part. I've been part of the unfortunate group other times.

NOTE: all numbers made up. I don't know how many users there are, nor do I know how many are having issues.

I finally got a answer from support and it confirmed what I had found on facebook.
I was advised to reinstall 13.5.8
Which if I had waited for my response and hadnt got it from elswhere I wouldnt have been able to as its been removed from my account.
The problem is with JUCE.
Juce is the framework for waveform
No idea if that has been fixed as nothing about 13.5.13 now being stable was mentioned .
So all a bit of a lottery downloading the latest update if it hasnt for that hypothetical 4%

I still haven't heard from support. 13.5.8 is no longer listed for d/l but Traktion 6.7 and 11 are.

I installed WF 11, and Biotek 2 works, but not Bio3 or Attraktive. I was working with a Cinematic expansion pack that works only with Bio3, and I have other Bio3 content that's now useless to me.

I've heard JUCE as a culprit for many things, but I'm not a developer. Overall, WF has been super solid for me.

Did support say it was a JUCE problem?

I still think Tracktion innovates. Off and on, I've thought of changing DAWs, but I'd rather get a root canal, than expend the time in learning a new DAW.

Edit: FYI- since you're into synths- https://www.coolwav.com/ has a sale for $10, and a ton free samples. I don't think I can resist this one.

Yes they came back and advised that "Their is a bug in Juce and to reinstal the previous version"
As I advised I had already read in Facebook anyway.
And already reverted back to previous version after the help on here and before it was removed from the Downloads in Tracktions website.
I am abroad and away from my Laptop at the mo so cant confirm if ant of the latest updates work or not.

Gotcha.

JUCE is a framework within C++ by the way. It's widely used to program things for music. Whatever the case, I'm royally annoyed.

Enjoy your trip.

[talby]

The dependence of Waveform on the JUCE framework is by far no surprise!

Wasn't JUCE born as JUlian Storer's C Enviroment, as a framework to ease for himself his programming of his own DAW called Tracktion, when creating and developing his first version(s) of Tracktion?
Didn't he then to most extend leave his Tracktion development and dedicated his work mainly to his JUCE project, handing the DAW development over to other fellow programmers who carry on the DAW development organized in a company now called Tracktion and the DAW having become rebranded to Waveform? Didn't he then reduce his activities in the JUCE project and started to develope a new framework called Cmayor?
This in mind I wouldn't be surprised if parts of Waveform will in the future also depend on Cmayor, besides having its rutes in JUCE.
By the way, the CLAP plugin format is becoming supported by JUCE, as far as I know, and therefore I am of good hope that CLAP support will then also find its way into Waveform. Let's cross fingers! Observing a lot of hassle with LV2 and VST3 under Linux, and others reporting in this thread about VST3 plugins under Windows not working flawlessly, maybe CLAP could come as a fresh and reliable solution for the future!

[stippenstoh]

My saga continues. Today, WF wasn't recognizing my midi keyboard. I set a restore point, and updated to 13.5.13. It made things worse (screen freeze) plugins crashing. I tried to go back to the restore point, but it didn't take, possibly due to my antivirus program.

Now I have to dig up the .8 installation file and downgrade. Haven't heard peep from support.

My Waveform Pro keeps crashing regularly when using third party plugins, even reputable ones like Soundtoys. I just updated to the 13.5.15 beta but still the same. Occasionally they work, other times they will crash, I have to reopen with plugin "Disabled", sometimes enabling works, sometimes it crashes again. I can't spot a pattern.

Then little things like recognising the AU but not the VST3 version or the VST version saving plugin settings when reopening a project while the AU version forgets everything (Soundtoys Effekt Rack).

None of these issues with Ableton or Reaper.
MacOS Sequoia 15.6.1