KVR Audio

CANE CREEK · Post by **CANE CREEK** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:02 pm

JohnVulich wrote:Look on the bright side... Reason users (of which I am one) have had to wait 2 years(!) for an extremely lame 2.5 to 3.0 update.

Ableton has, IMO, progressed light years in that time.

I think puting up with the Operator demo is a small price to pay.

2.5 to 3.0 update lame ? MMM im currently Beta teting R3 i know im not supposed to metion this but i ain't giving anything away.
Lame ? from a performing live point of view its brilliant and now you can master within , Lame ? don't talk stupid.

CANE CREEK · Post by **CANE CREEK** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:05 pm

MMMMM

audiobot202 · Post by **audiobot202** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:19 pm

headquest wrote:Regarding CPU, Robert Henke replied on the Ableton forum:

You have to realise that we have to work on a lot of issues. People want features, and they want these features to work better then in our competitors products because this is why the use ours. They also want the best possible sound quality, which usually also leads to higher CPU usage. We are constantly trying to improve the product, and CPU optimisation is *always* on our list, but if this would be the only thing we work on, we would not have the chance to do it for long, since we would not survive on this market.
In other words, improving Live 4's cpu handling won;t earn them any more income, while developing new synths possibly will.

It's an interesting perspective on customer service

Hehe...exactly. Maybe if Live was efficient more people would use it and not want to buy a different product.

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:03 pm

Lets not forget, you can spout as much hippy crap as you want about people doing it "for the love of it" and "for the people" but just like any other business it will only survive if it makes money.

Besides which, saying that improving CPU usage won't make them more money is a poorly thought out argument.

If they reduce CPU usage, and enable people to get more out of it, its no differnt to any other improvement that results in more performance for your money.

I think $149 for a new synth on top of a $500 product is a bit much, but i doubt they did it without thinking about it. They'll have their reasons for doing what they do.

Bottom line, you don't have to upgrade, or buy the synth, just like any other product.

If people are happy then ableton will prosper, if not then they won't. God knows why anyone thinks this is any different to any other company, or any other marketplace.

Sorry

i'm in a stinking mood, bloody dissertation is pissing me off

ew · Post by ew » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:26 pm

I don't understand everybody bitching about this...if you don't like it, don't use it. Nobody's holding a gun to your head saying you have to buy Operator (or use the demo), are they?
FWIW, I don't understand the CPU bitching, either. A complex Operator patch on my machine runs about 20-25%, and that's on a <1 GHz PIII. And while I won't be buying it, Ableton definitely has the right to include the demo as part of the installer.
ew

Beardedone · Post by **Beardedone** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:32 pm

Hey Eric! How do like the sounds of Operator? I must say I haven't heard anything too special. Yes it does sound good but nothing beyond whatI already have.

braj · Post by **braj** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:39 pm

I'm not too impressed with Operator, especially since you can't use it any other apps. If it was really CPU friendly, I'd understand more. That would justify buying a Live4-only plug-in. I don't see how it is a good business decision either, limiting it only to Live users.

I would rather they hired the outside help to fix the CPU usage issues in Live4. The #1 reason (beyond 'not getting' Live4) I've heard why people won't buy it is CPU performance. It seems they put the cart before the horse to me.

ew · Post by ew » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:39 pm

Afternoon, Gordon

It's nice enough, I suppose- if you don't have anything else covering your FM. The one LFO irks me, as well as being only 4-op. I'd probably think more of it if I didn't have FM7 and Tera to do FM with.
ew

Rabid · Post by **Rabid** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:56 pm

The synth price does not bother me because like many other people here, I don't need yet another VSTi. don't use VSTi's with Live anyway, which may be why it works decently for me. Or maybe it is because I find myself using Live less and less and instead using Sonar for Acid clips.

Robert

Beardedone · Post by **Beardedone** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:03 pm

Thanks Eric. And a very good afternoon to you!

Sonically, I don't see any need for Operator what with FM synths like Sytrus and Phantom in my stable. Trouble is though I like these a lot but cannot program them at all I am stuck with the presets. I have Cameleon5000, Symptohm and z3ta- and alas I also cannot figure how to program these. I can manage program Albino2, Pentagon, and Square which work well with eXT preset generator. Kontakt, ST2 and SS2 fill most any sampled synth sound I could want. The possible value in Operator for me could be if it actually is user friendly for sound design. I will have to see if this is the case as as they advertise.

Beardedone · Post by **Beardedone** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:04 pm

The synth price does not bother me because like many other people here, I don't need yet another VSTi. don't use VSTi's with Live anyway, which may be why it works decently for me. Or maybe it is because I find myself using Live less and less and instead using Sonar for Acid clips.

Robert

Me too Sonar still is the greatest!

braj · Post by **braj** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:11 pm

Beardedone wrote:
The synth price does not bother me because like many other people here, I don't need yet another VSTi. don't use VSTi's with Live anyway, which may be why it works decently for me. Or maybe it is because I find myself using Live less and less and instead using Sonar for Acid clips.

Robert
Me too Sonar still is the greatest!

I have a lot of respect for Sonar, but using it is a chore to me. I like how Live and Tracktion just have one track for both vsti and audio generated by the vsti. I just hate having all those tracks on screen and trying to keep everything straight. I think they should include an option to bundle the plugin and it's audio track. It would also be nice to have all imported audio files default to groove clips.

useruseruser · Post by **useruseruser** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:43 pm

pornstar wrote:It has alot of bugs??? I use it every day and I've never had a problem worth mentioning..

Ahh yeah...

And then you never got a total crash on attempt to save a file with thotal corrupted (and lost) song data then, like me?

You lucky guy!

This actual Beta 4.1 is never the less an intresting application.

braj · Post by **braj** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:58 pm

Live 4.1 crashes nicely for me! Luckily, the projects are usually retrievable.

nibbzious · Post by **nibbzious** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:09 pm

braj wrote:Live 4.1 crashes nicely for me! Luckily, the projects are usually retrievable.

keywords: usually retrievable.

I'd really like to go back to using Cubase, but I'm too in love with the Live 4 interface even if a couple of instruments seems to max out my Athlon 64 4000+.

And projects that just randomly go corrupt.

And the very, very, slow arranger view that can take 20 seconds to do a duplicate command.

Oh well, it's better than a fiddly midi editor, not being able to scroll through your samples with a mouse wheel, not being able to play your instrument while you add plugins, not being able to rearrange the chain of plugins, shitty built in eq's, having to hit R and W to do automation, forgetting W is on and losing everything, blah blah.

ABLETON LIVE 4.1 upgrade , Not happy...