KVR Audio

CANE CREEK · Post by **CANE CREEK** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:18 am

My new copy of Ableton live 4 arrived today , its a excellent program but i was rather Gutted that the new "Operator" synth wasn't free with the 4.1 upgrade you get a demo and have to pay to unlock it , when i upgraded cubase from Sx2.0 to SX2.2 i got "Embracer" for free & when i upgraded Reason 2.0 to 2.5 i got a load of FX for free....Bad move by Ableton im not impressed ( i won't buy it either as its much too CPU hungry )

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:55 am

You tit. YOU TIT. YOU TIT!!

Its a seperate product, not an included part of Live 4.

ccollinsmith · Post by **ccollinsmith** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:13 am

Acolmiztli wrote:Its a seperate product, not an included part of Live 4.

And they've never pretended that it IS part of Live 4.1. All they've said is that a DEMO for the product is included with Live 4.1.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:16 am

correct

nibbzious · Post by **nibbzious** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:21 am

I think they need to worry about more important issues like CPU usage and the arranger's extreme sluggishness. I have alot of synths already... although it does look very interesting and I'll probably get it sooner or later... there are much more important things that Ableton has to address.

Although I'm happy they killed alot of bugs with 4.1, Live 4 still needs alot of work.

pornstar · Post by **pornstar** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:15 am

It has alot of bugs??? I use it every day and I've never had a problem worth mentioning..

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:23 am

Well the only thing that has changed in v4.1 is that a list of bugs have been squished and the demo of Operator has been thrown in.

Hardly a decent upgrade

I'm with those who think that sorting our Live's CPU guzzling tendencies is a far more important priority than spending time producing yet another VSTi and charging a ridiculous sum of money for it.

As for it being a seperate product and not part of Live, well perhaps you can show me how the GUI looks in another host. Oh.. you mean it won't work in any other host

. Gosh, it must be for Live only then, a bit like the FREE RV7000 reverb, FREE Scream 4 distortion, FREE Vocoder, FREE spiders and FREE unison that were given FREE with Reason 2.5. Or the TWO FREE synths of the FREE convolution reverb recently given to Cubase SX users by Steinberg.

So I'm with CANE CREEK. I think that Ableton have seriously misjudged this, and judging by the amount of anger erupting over on the Ableton forum I think many registered Live 4 users like me a somewhat pissed off, and feel that Robert H is beginning to lose the plot...

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:36 am

headquest quoth

As for it being a seperate product and not part of Live, well perhaps you can show me how the GUI looks in another host. Oh.. you mean it won't work in any other host . Gosh, it must be for Live only then, a bit like the FREE RV7000 reverb, FREE Scream 4 distortion, FREE Vocoder, FREE spiders and FREE unison that were given FREE with Reason 2.5. Or the TWO FREE synths of the FREE convolution reverb recently given to Cubase SX users by Steinberg.

Nope, its like all the stuff EMagic used to bundle with Logic that only ran as a demo until you bought them; stuff like EXS24, EVB3 et.c. Stuff that didnt work in any other host.
Yes Emagic changed their mind about that, so perhaps Ableton might eventually... But to be honest I actually think Apple changed Emagic's mind for them.

CANE CREEK · Post by **CANE CREEK** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:52 am

Acolmiztli wrote:You tit. YOU TIT. YOU TIT!!

Its a seperate product, not an included part of Live 4.

as i said steinberg gave me Embracer for nothing on the sx 2.2 upgrade , but they never forced bungled demo's of hypersonic or xphase which i had to install to get the buggs fixed on the host did they ?.

If it was a separate product then ableton shouldn't of put the operator demo in with the Update , they should of emailed me instead to let me know a new product was released , as now i have a demo on my machine which i don't want.

Basically the point im making is to get my Bugs fixed in ableton i had to install a demo of operator , Ableton didn't give me the choise which was wrong , and ok emagic were wrong too but corrected the error of their ways.

50% of my Help menu real estate is took up by lessons of a demo synth i don't own (its wrong)

I may be wrong but im sure i read an article in CM magazine that said operator was free , that is one of my reasons for buying live 4 in the first place.

HEY headquest it good to see atleast somebody has some common sense....

audiobot202 · Post by **audiobot202** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:33 am

headquest wrote:I'm with those who think that sorting our Live's CPU guzzling tendencies is a far more important priority than spending time producing yet another VSTi and charging a ridiculous sum of money for it.
....I think that Ableton have seriously misjudged this, and judging by the amount of anger erupting over on the Ableton forum I think many registered Live 4 users like me a somewhat pissed off, and feel that Robert H is beginning to lose the plot...

Agreed. But you already know my thoughts on this Andy. And it's even worse considering the prices they charge for software down under as you know.
I don't think we're whinging users when we say that Live has serious CPU guzzling issues that need to be fixed. Somebody is making a ton of money on faulty, stuttering product and to be told repeatedly by others to just go and get a CPU upgrade is patently ridiculous ! A machine operating at over 2 billion calculations per second with multimedia instructions should run just about anything you throw at it, not stutter its way through a fairly minimal track after you just inserted the latest VSTi. That smacks more of sloppy programming.
The reality is, CPU manufacturers have hit the sub 4ghz wall, so we're unlikely to see massive improvements in raw speed anyway. How's about software manufacturers actually utilising some of those millions of CPU cycles for something other than a pretty interface?
I've paid darn good money for software and had it fall over, when it should really be flying.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:23 pm

[DELETED]

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:00 pm

some advice, pretend operator is not there and if Live 4 isn't worth what you paid then you shouldn't of bought it even if operator was free.

regarding what ableton 'should have done' the head of ableton already on abletons site has stated that they out contracted or something to that effect the programmers for operator and that the bulk of programmers they have have not been sitting on their laurels, in other words somethings been cooking over in the abes kitchen and it hasn't been operator, they
are gearing up to smack folks in the head once again with something profound regarding 'Live', maybe it's live 5, maybe just additions to Live 4 but they've eluded something major.

don't sleep

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:02 pm

maybe a link with 9/11

griels · Post by **griels** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:46 pm

headquest wrote:Well the only thing that has changed in v4.1 is that a list of bugs have been squished and the demo of Operator has been thrown in.

Hardly a decent upgrade

Don't knock it, there are a lot of companies who charge for bugfixes (in the form of paid updates), or never fix known issues

Sorry if some Ableton customers feel they've been misled, but there are much worse behaved companies out there.

arp_laszlo · Post by **arp_laszlo** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:53 pm

it's not like they upgraded to 5.0 with a few minor bugfixes. while i think they missed on the price by at least US$50, once i worked the tutorials and gave it a a proper go, i realized Operator is a super-versatile synth that's dead easy to use. don't like it? don't buy it. you can still get use out of it by bouncing samples and loops, so it's not like it's a total tease - if you play around and come up with something you like, you're not totally up shit creek. (note: i know this thread was started by 'cane creek' and my use of this american colloquialism is not a dig at him/her in any way)

the complaints about cpu usage are legitimate - to me, that issue seems to revolve around vsti. in this regard, i'm willing to cut them some slack since it's their first version supporting vsti, versus the 6th iteration of Cubase, etc. they implemented what is probably the #1 user request with vsti in 4.0. i remember wishing cpu usage was better sometime in the days of 1.0 and they fixed it then, and i have no doubts that they will do it again.

the logic comparison is an interesting one. i remember when they had Logic-only plugins, and i wanted them. then i got other plugs and by the time they developed vst plugs, i didn't care about their products. now they seem to have gone back to Logic only, except it's all free, but Apple's MO has always been to use software to sell hardware. it's a tough comparison to make with Ableton, who have no hardware to sell but still need to eat, pay rent, etc.

ABLETON LIVE 4.1 upgrade , Not happy...